Why does water in Morrowind still look better than Skyrim? : V

» Fri May 18, 2012 6:33 pm

I mean seriously. That is like a 50 year old game, in today's world and water still looks better than it does in Skyrim.

Only AaG's WIP looks comparable to these videos. Now I'm talking about a large body of water like in these videos not a steam or current like in Whiterun near the big tree (With Realistic water textures added, 1.5V).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NX-MvnYUEs

(SKIP TO 30 seconds and 1:30 to SEE what I mean)

Video 2

(SKIP to 5 MIN to see light to surface reflections is still better)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhuHaNX93_s&annotation_id=annotation_723879&hd=1&src_vid=9NX-MvnYUEs&feature=iv

» Fri May 18, 2012 8:07 am

*Grabs popcorn*
Who's tonight's fighters?

» Fri May 18, 2012 7:36 am

Because consoles can't handle it.

» Fri May 18, 2012 9:56 am

Because that's a modded Morrowind...

» Fri May 18, 2012 6:22 pm

EDIT: I totally misread your post.

Yeah, the water looks nice, but I like Skyrim's with this mod:
http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=711
and
http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=603

» Fri May 18, 2012 12:33 pm

Modded or not Beth really gave us the short end of the stick on this one. Yes yes. We all know Realistic water textures does the trick for now but come on.

» Fri May 18, 2012 8:15 pm

Come on what? You just said it did the trick. Vanilla Skyrim Water > Vanilla Morrowind Water. :shrug:

» Fri May 18, 2012 6:10 pm

http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1111 gives varying ripples depending on water type/location.

» Fri May 18, 2012 5:51 pm

Modded or not Beth really gave us the short end of the stick on this one. Yes yes. We all know Realistic water textures does the trick for now but come on.

No, you can't discount mods like that because the mods look amazing. With the right mods, Morrowind on a decent machine blows vanilla Skyrim out of the water. This is not news, not by any stretch of the imagination.

» Fri May 18, 2012 3:01 pm

No, you can't discount mods like that because the mods look amazing. With the right mods, Morrowind on a decent machine blows vanilla Skyrim out of the water. This is not news, not by any stretch of the imagination.

its news to me. morrowind may have a'lot of neat visual features now due to mge, but still, the poly count for the world geometry is weak, combat ai is pretty bad, and the animations are really bad. even with mods the animations are still bad, not the animators fault, its the fact that the animations don't chain well, bad blending etc because of old methods.
im not defending skyrim, im just saying that modded morrowind does NOT blow vanilla skyrim out of the water, YET.
vanilla oblivion maybe.

» Fri May 18, 2012 6:36 pm

No, you can't discount mods like that because the mods look amazing. With the right mods, Morrowind on a decent machine blows vanilla Skyrim out of the water. This is not news, not by any stretch of the imagination.

Indeed, modded Morrowind can become a beautiful game even with todays graphic-standards. Except ofcourse for the models :/ Even though they can be made to look a LOT better than vanilla-MW, they're still awful.

» Fri May 18, 2012 6:37 am

I love the Skyrim water. Maybe it's a graphics card thing. I know my Morrowind water changed dramatically when I got a different card.

» Fri May 18, 2012 10:06 am

its news to me. morrowind may have a'lot of neat visual features now due to mge, but still, the poly count for the world geometry is weak, combat ai is pretty bad, and the animations are really bad. even with mods the animations are still bad, not the animators fault, its the fact that the animations don't chain well, bad blending etc because of old methods.
im not defending skyrim, im just saying that modded morrowind does NOT blow vanilla skyrim out of the water, YET.
vanilla oblivion maybe.

The environments are comparable.

Models and everything else? Absolutely not.

» Fri May 18, 2012 12:05 pm

The part I dislike the most is that it doesn't even pretend to interact with the shore banks or anything. Major case of uncanny valley.

» Fri May 18, 2012 9:44 am

I guess I'm the only one who actually loves Skyrim's water. I often stand and look at it long periods of time.

I thought Oblivion's water looked absolutely hideous. I felt Morrowind's water was much, much better.

I also thought Morrowind's skies looked better than Oblivion's skies, too. And, on top of all that, Oblivion's moons were the worst moons I think I've ever seen in a video game in the 2000's. They looked like two cardboard cutouts that were being slowly moved across a paint-splattered backdrop by stagehands.

After enduring Oblivion's poor water and skies and moons Skyrim's look wonderful to me.

» Fri May 18, 2012 8:48 am

So you are trying to assert that MODDED Morrowind water looks better then VANILLA Skyrim water...

Ok...

That's like arguing a tank is better then a handgun because it has a bigger gun... NO [censored] [censored] its better...

» Fri May 18, 2012 1:27 pm

So you are trying to assert that MODDED Morrowind water looks better then VANILLA Skyrim water...

That is what he should be asserting but he's not.

He's presenting a water shader released 6+ years after Morrowind and using a misleading assertion that is what the water in Morrowind looked like back in 2001. Then asking why a game from 10 years ago has better water than Skyrim.

I almost called troll but now I think he truly believes his argument.

Vanilla water in Skyrim> Vanilla water in Oblivion > Vanilla water in Morrowind- Sorry but it's true.

» Fri May 18, 2012 11:40 am

What's the deal with Airline Food?

» Fri May 18, 2012 10:40 am

The point is the modded water was made years ago (MGE was released a few years ago) by unprofessional non-bethesda no-source-code-access HOBBY modders.

Bethesda can't even beat the effects of some guy who made it for fun? Wow...and they get PAID for it!

» Fri May 18, 2012 3:53 pm

The point is the modded water was made years ago (MGE was released a few years ago) by unprofessional non-bethesda no-source-code-access HOBBY modders.

Bethesda can't even beat the effects of some guy who made it for fun? Wow...and they get PAID for it!

Two things

1) I don't know how the older one's water looked, but apparently this video is from a 2011 version.

2) Getting money for it or doing it for fun does not equal being better. I'd even say the guy who does it for fun can make it a lot better because he's continuing from the basis that's already there and he's not limited by deadlines and specific design specifications.
Modders often can do better than the developers precisely because it's a non-profit venture.

» Fri May 18, 2012 1:36 pm

The point is the modded water was made years ago (MGE was released a few years ago) by unprofessional non-bethesda no-source-code-access HOBBY modders.

Bethesda can't even beat the effects of some guy who made it for fun? Wow...and they get PAID for it!

They can do better, but they don't because they have performance issue to deal with over a very large range of people. We as modders should know the limits of our own systems so we have more free reign to use higher quality textures and shaders.

» Fri May 18, 2012 3:18 pm

What is wrong with Skyrim's vanilla water anyways? Looks better than most titles I know of with exception to Unreal 3's engine and Frostbite 2 and they are utilizing DX11 features. As far as THAT mod is concerned, the author did a wonderful job of ripping off everyone's Morrowind work and consolidating into one big phat file without giving proper credits. While it does look good I wouldn't lay that on the table with any argument with the assumption that it was vanilla Morrowind or even close. That is just being a troll.

» Fri May 18, 2012 1:58 pm

...and 'some guy who made it for fun' may be an advanced graphics pro modding in his/her spare time.

» Fri May 18, 2012 1:42 pm

...and 'some guy who made it for fun' may be an advanced graphics pro modding in his/her spare time.

That's the key thing here though: Spare time

Developers don't have that luxury. Modders can work away at their craft on their own terms, without the workload pressure, and without the Deadline hassle. They have none of the environmental pressures that Developers often do.

» Fri May 18, 2012 7:07 pm

...and 'some guy who made it for fun' may be an advanced graphics pro modding in his/her spare time.

Shouldn't Beth then fire their current guy and hire this one instead?