Why dont 1st gen mutants grow to behemoths?

Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:24 am

From my understanding the Vaults were built to save people. Enclave "shadow government" usurped the Vaults for their own use. All but 17 of the Vaults were left to save people "control vaults." The rest of the 122 vaults became part of the Enclave experiments.


:facepalm: Now how could I have missed that bit of info.
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Claudz
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:07 am

I imagine we'll probably be seeing other FEV creations in the future or learning that some already existing creature was a pre-war experiment.


For the the love of ( :bowdown: ) Fallout I hope that we have seen the last of secret FEV labs. I hope we have something new!
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Suzy Santana
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:50 am

already existing creature was a pre-war experiment.

Like Nightstalkers.
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darnell waddington
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:34 am

Chinese FEV counterpart?

Ooh I know in a secret test facility in Alaska...
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Krystal Wilson
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:18 am

Chinese FEV counterpart?

Ooh I know in a secret test facility in Alaska...


Alaska was taken back by America before the great war. America was invading China itself when the nukes were launched.

I doubt China would have such a project. FEV was top secret (at least lore says it was). If they had known about it they would have nuked Mariposa. China would have put their time into countering PA which allowed America to break the back of China's armies.
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OTTO
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:02 am

For the the love of ( :bowdown: ) Fallout I hope that we have seen the last of secret FEV labs.

Then suddenly, Fallout 4 takes place in three cities, all with Pre-War FEV labs under them. :wink:
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Cody Banks
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:42 am

Alaska was taken back by America before the great war. America was invading China itself when the nukes were launched.

I doubt China would have such a project. FEV was top secret. If they had known about it they would have nuked Mariposa. China would have put their time into countering PA which allowed America to break the back of China's armies.


I think we have to give the chinese a little more credit though.
They didn't just sit around and wait for America to develop things and then invent a counter to it..
As far as I'm aware China was a super-power in its own right in pre-war FO?

There is hardly any information about them though.
People are already geting tired of some of the factions and creatures in the current FO world.
I think A secret base in Alaska that when entered accidently releases a hoarde of mutant creatures that was once intended to ravage pre-war north America could be a cool way to introduce some new enemies.
It would also be a cool way to give us a little 'lore' about the other main antagonist in the great war.

Anyway, was just an idea.
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Laura Cartwright
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:19 am

I think we have to give the chinese a little more credit though.
They didn't just sit around and wait for America to develop things and then invent a counter to it..
As far as I'm aware China was a super-power in its own right in pre-war FO?

There is hardly any information about them though.
People are already geting tired of some of the factions and creatures in the current FO world.
I think A secret base in Alaska that when entered accidently releases a hoarde of mutant creatures that was once intended to ravage pre-war north America could be a cool way to introduce some new enemies.
It would also be a cool way to give us a little 'lore' about the other main antagonist in the great war.

Anyway, was just an idea.

To be honest, I feel knowing to much about the Chinese ruins their villified reputation. I personally like that Cold War propaganda styled posters of 'Americana!' and seeing that if you scratch a hole in that poster, it shows America isn't as perfect as the mass media tries to portray it to be. IE prison camps for Chinese citizens etc.
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Tasha Clifford
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:52 am

For the the love of ( :bowdown: ) Fallout I hope that we have seen the last of secret FEV labs. I hope we have something new!

Sorry to bring you the bad news.
In Old World Blues you will discover how some of the Mojave’s mutated monsters came to be.

That sounds like a LAB that experiment with FEV doesn't it. But really the monsters in fallout are either
A: Radiation induced:
B: Genetically engineered:
C: FEV creations
D: Any combination of the above.
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gandalf
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:17 am

snip


China would have been something like a super power in Fallout but America and China would not have had the same relation as they do in our timeline. China today just copies and pasts America's tech today. So my guess is they would just be ripping off USSR's tech in Fallout. Still that is my opinion. China did manage to make stealth tech.

China figured out that West Tek is where alot of America's advanced weapons were coming from such as PA.

Stil my problem is, America took back Alaska before the great war. Any Chinese bases there America would have captured or destroyed. Such a base if there ever was one would be built in a more secure place.

Then suddenly, Fallout 4 takes place in three cities, all with Pre-War FEV labs under them. :wink:


No! :ahhh: :ahhh:
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Big mike
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:34 am

Sorry to bring you the bad news.
In Old World Blues you will discover how some of the Mojave’s mutated monsters came to be.

That sounds like a LAB that experiment with FEV doesn't it. But really the monsters in fallout are either
B: Genetically engineered:

This is the case of the Nightstalkers. But there doesn't seem to be any other man made creatures in the Mojave aside from Deathclaws.
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Jade Barnes-Mackey
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:23 am

Sorry to bring you the bad news.
In Old World Blues you will discover how some of the Mojave’s mutated monsters came to be.

That sounds like a LAB that experiment with FEV doesn't it. But really the monsters in fallout are either
A: Radiation induced:
B: Genetically engineered:
C: FEV creations
D: Any combination of the above.


Fallout 2 was to have the EPA. There was a guy working with FEV but it was cut. Enclave had Frank Horrigan and the means to mess with FEV. By Lab I am talking about another place with Vats like Mariposa or Vault 87. No more places that can turen out super mutants. To make one you need to dip the whole body in FEV or put them in a room with gas FEV. Just sticking some one with a needle isn't going to cut it. The only other place besides Mariposa and Vault 87 that would have alot of FEV was the Rig which would explain Frank Horrigan. But does not explain why they opened up Mariposa to get FEV. Maybe the Rig ran out :shrug:

Still if the Rig had FEV there would be no need for them to have Vault 87. It was apart of the US airforce was it not?

This is the case of the Nightstalkers. But there doesn't seem to be any other man made creatures in the Mojave aside from Deathclaws.


Deathclaws arn't just in the Mojave. They can have babies. Nightstalkers and cazadors are the two new creatures to fallout.
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Jonathan Montero
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:21 am

I've never been so I don't know for sure, but isn't Alaska mainly ice and snow and huge frozen areas of ocean with icefloes etc?
Wouldn't be too hard to have an abandoned and undiscovered base in a place as hostile as that?
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Justin
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:29 pm

There was for some reason a military vault messing around with FEV. Vaults were not for military use. Enclave would have no use for such a Vault. FEV was to only be on the West and was top secret. Bethesda went against canon by adding super mutants.

By your logic Fallout 2 broke canon by adding the vault experiment to begin with. The entire vault experiment didn't exist when fallout 1 was made. It wasn't until Fallout 2 that they added the whole experiment angle. Why does Fallout 2 get to add to the game world but not fallout 3? There is nothing in the previous games that said there couldn't be a vault conducting secret experiments using the FEV virus. No body was supposed to know about the vault experiments let alone the FEV experiments. Of course it be kept a secret. And the Enclave would be very interested in the military applications of the FEV virus. So until you find the bit of ingame data that says there is no FEV on the east coast no canon was broken.


To be honest, I feel knowing to much about the Chinese ruins their villified reputation. I personally like that Cold War propaganda styled posters of 'Americana!' and seeing that if you scratch a hole in that poster, it shows America isn't as perfect as the mass media tries to portray it to be. IE prison camps for Chinese citizens etc.

I agree

Fallout 2 was to have the EPA. There was a guy working with FEV but it was cut. Enclave had Frank Horrigan and the means to mess with FEV. By Lab I am talking about another place with Vats like Mariposa or Vault 87. No more places that can turn out super mutants. To make one you need to dip the whole body in FEV or put them in a room with gas FEV. Just sticking some one with a needle isn't going to cut it. The only other place besides Mariposa and Vault 87 that would have alot of FEV was the Rig which would explain Frank Horrigan. But does not explain why they opened up Mariposa to get FEV. Maybe the Rig ran out :shrug:

Still if the Rig had FEV there would be no need for them to have Vault 87. It was apart of the US airforce was it not?

The rig didn't have any samples of FEV, which is why they went to Marpoisa to begin with. Frank was exposed accidentally when the slaves clearing out Marposia rebelled, so he's technically a second generation mutant. He was rushed back to the rig where he finished under going his transformation and they sealed him in a custom suit of power armor. The Enclave also couldn't experiment with FEV themselves without using there own people which would not be acceptible. Hense why they kidnapped the citizens of vault 13 and Arryo.

The lack of intelligence in Vault 87 mutants means all contact would have been lost resulting in the loss of data. Or they knew what happened but didn't care.
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James Rhead
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:43 pm

Deathclaws arn't just in the Mojave. They can have babies. Nightstalkers and cazadors are the two new creatures to fallout.

No no no, I just meant that Deathclaws and Nightstalkers seem to be the only Man Made creatures we see in the Mojave so far, Cazador seem to be like any other natural mutation via the FEV and Radiation in the air.
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xxLindsAffec
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:44 am

snip


Fallout 2 does not break canon by my logic. Fallout does not really explain the Vaults, just says people took shelter in underground Vaults. Fallout 2 adds to the story of the Vaults. Fallout 3 goes against Fallout 2 aka breaks canon.

Thanks for the info about Frank :foodndrink:

The reasons why Enclave opened up Mariposa I knew about.
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Katey Meyer
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:10 am

Fallout 2 does not break canon by my logic. Fallout does not really explain the Vaults. Fallout 2 adds to the story of the Vaults. Fallout 3 goes against Fallout 2 aka breaks canon.

Thanks for the info about Frank :foodndrink:

Who says that Fallout 3 breaks canon? It doesn't say anywhere in the Fallout lore that all FEV WAS AT Mariposa, it merely stated 'to be sent to', who's to say that it just wasnt shipped in time. Or MAYBE the vault having a hidden motive, ignores this message. Bethesda isnt breaking lore, it's leaving things vague. (Which is still a big no no in my book)
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Daniel Holgate
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:20 am

Actually, Fallout 2s Vault experiments actually helped explain Fallout, like Vault 12, it explained exactly why they did what they did and all got ghoulified.
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Christine Pane
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:52 pm

Who says that Fallout 3 breaks canon? It doesn't say anywhere in the Fallout lore that all FEV WAS AT Mariposa, it merely stated 'to be sent to', who's to say that it just wasnt shipped in time. Or MAYBE the vault having a hidden motive, ignores this message. Bethesda isnt breaking lore, it's leaving things vague. (Which is still a big no no in my book)


Lore makes it clear. FEV was started in West Tek. Then was sent to Mariposa, months before the great war. Vaults were Enclave experiments No reason to have a vault with FEV run by the US air force. Why would the Enclave want to create mutants? They want to destroy them. FEV was a west coast top secret thing. Having it all over the damn place goes against the the whole 'Top secret" thing.

Why would the US government put FEV into a Vault and not move it to Mariposa? Mariposa survived which means it would have been a smart move to move it there along with the rest of FEV. Not stick it into a vault that was meant to save people.

I don't like there was another type of FEV in DC. I am pissed off that it was in a Vault of all places!
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Claudz
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:05 pm

Lore makes it clear. FEV was started in West Tek. Then was sent to Mariposa, months before the great war. Vaults were Enclave experiments No reason to have a vault with FEV run by the US air force. Why would the Enclave want to create mutants? They want ot destroy them. FEV was a west coast top secret thing. Having it all over the damn place goes against the the whole 'Top secret" thing.

Your forgeting your Lore, the first super mutants weren't created until after the war, none of the early human experiments resulted in super mutants. The Enclave wouldn't know the results of the experiments until after the war. (assuming Vault 87 was even able to maintain contact after a bomb hit directly ontop or when it was overun by mutants).

The Vaults were bulit by Vault-Tek which along side West-Tek had the Enclave running things from the shadows. Why is it so unbelievable they might commission Vault-Tek to have one of the vaults continue important research that probably couldn't survive the great war. If you have 100+ vaults designed to experiment and screw with people and it remained a secret putting one that used FEV isn't' a stretch

*why do you keep bringing up the U.S Air force? The Enclave was built from the most important people in the military industrial government. Your confusing the Enclave with the Stargate Program.
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Vicki Blondie
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:57 am

There's a stargate in FO?

Ok, screw everything I have ever said about who would in in post-war America because once the Replicators get here, ain't NOONE stopping them!!
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Hot
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:09 am

There's a stargate in FO?

Ok, screw everything I have ever said about who would in in post-war America because once the Replicators get here, ain't NOONE stopping them!!

I was joking... which I hope you realize but because some might not,

My comment was directed and Styles habbit of connecting the secret Enclave operations to the air force.
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Emerald Dreams
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:58 am

Heh I know.. I just thought it would be funny trying to imagine anyone in the FO universe trying to take on the epic metal bugs of doom. (Let alone the scary-ass human type ones)
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BEl J
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:43 pm

snip


The first FEV experiments were on animals and they noticed that the animals would become bigger and stronger. There were human tests which caused the army units at Mariposa to rebel and kill the people working there. Still you are right there were no super mutants before the great war.

Mariposa survived the Great War. If the Enclave we so damn intrested in FEV they would have made Mariposa one of their outposts right away. Not wait till, Fallout 2 once it was already destroyed. Lore says FEV was moved to Mariposa. Vault 87 has nothing to so with a sociological experiment. Enclave could have built FEV thing on the Rig insted of putting it in a vault over 3000 miles away from their Rig.

As for air force. Not sure why... and I am not mixing it up with Stargate program. I asked many times because I knew It couldn't be right :P
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Sunnii Bebiieh
 
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Post » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:25 am

Think of FEV experiments like this

1st Gen: These experiments were performed by scientists and the master. They used controlled experiments with a clear goal in mind. Resulting in the masters army and the first round of super mutants in Vault 87 like Uncle Leo and Fawkes. The scientists and the master worked hard to maintain the intelligence and quality control in the product. Even they failed a large amount of the time. The product however was mutants with good smarts. Take the Stealh boy craziness of the Nightkin however you want,

2nd Gen: These were performed by super mutants with random exposure to FEV. In the west by the remnants of the Maters army. In the east by the mutants that eventually overpowered the vault.They used no scientific standards, they weren't trying in either case to maintain intelligence or stability, they just wanted numbers. There is an example of this in F3 when you go to the ruined police station and hear the mutants talk about many they expose dieing and only the very strong surviving. Thus you end up with dum dums. So in this context the Behemoths of F3 aren't too bad canon wise as they were made by random trial and error with a side dish of error.

As to Vault Tec doing FEV experiments being silly: The vaults were contracted out for experiments because they were a sealed environment. A unique chance the corrupt and powerful used to their own ends. People go in thinking they'll be saved and instead they are just lab rats. There is an overriding sense in the game that they thought the infrastructure of the US wouldn't be totally wiped out and things would go on in a matter of decades. Though it is also implied a lot of the experiment Vaults would go on even after the world had rebounded. Then the things they learned in the vaults could be used in future conflicts and on the home front to control the masses. Like the sound/thought control technologies in vault 92, the social structure experiments in Vault 11 and 19 and the overpopulation and weapons in 34.

They used the controlled environment to see how they could control further once the world rebounded. It didn't work out of course because Vault Tec ceased to exist as did the US government and the other corporations involved. Moving an FEV experiment to those controlled environments before the war only makes sense given the canon from Fallout 1 and 2. The premise of the Vaults being experiments was established in fallout one with the water chip shipment being purposefully sent to the wrong vault and not 13. Where better to continue the research than in a Vault far from the West coast where the majority of the work was being done?

I read way too many terminals in game.
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Nathan Barker
 
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