Considering they aren't going to recode the game into a open world pvp you can kill players in your own faction free-for-all, you might want to consider finding another game that would allow the type of game you're looking for. I'm fairly sure there are other games out there that will allow betrayal/backstabbing/being a bastard in general. This one won't; it isn't set up that way.

"Free For All Player Versus Player", iirc.

Basically anyone can kill anyone anywhere at any time. Even if the other player doesn't want to pvp.

okay, so this entire thread is you basically saying "i want Open world PVP and anyone who does not want it is an idiot as OPVP is NEVER bad"

Having played the beta I'm fairly positive that even in the current setup, you can actually exploit it to backstab your own faction. Which is a very good thing, since being forced into a imaginary, non-player made faction in a MMO, is a very boring thing.

not really.......at all...........

I don't want limitless open-world PvP and I don't think you are an idiot for not wanting it. Don't play victim or twist my words, I'm fairly straightforward in what I say.

The key to understanding what I am trying to explain, is to start from the idea that extremes are bad.

The only people I know who really enjoy this kind of play are the type of people who enjoy trolling, griefing, corpse-camping, etc. And if eliminating open-world PvP gets rid of those players, then I will gladly hold the door for them as ZO shoves them out.

Except you seem to be under the imporession your views are facts and not opinions. People who troll, grief, etc do NOTHING for the game and Do not help anything.

Take DDO for example, it is ACTUALLY fairly troll-free for the most part, at least on chat and the forums (the server i am on has ONE troll who rarely says anything) and the game is MUCH better for it. I do not see how having trolls would in anyway "Better" the game.

This thread reminded me of http://www.policymic.com/articles/76273/5-reasons-china-s-smog-is-good-for-the-chinese-people-according-to-china.

Immediate lulz followed while OP tries to justify trashy behavior by using the cliche argument that bad people make things interesting.

Then I realized OP was masochist and I had even more lulz.

You see, you are not very different of the type of gameplay which I'm speaking about. You are being confrontational and denying my opinion rather than attempting to convince me otherwise with a serious argument. You attempt to provoke me into replying and it keeps this thread alive. Basically, in game you'd be the type of player who, if I were making effort to make a raid, would come and go "nah screw you I don't agree" and KS the whole thing. Excellent, brings me joy to see that there are indeed people who will make of this game a real MMO :]

It's inherent to us. We're all confrontational little bastards.

That has to be the most convoluted reasoning I've ever seen. Only trolls encourage trolling; no one else likes it. No one else will miss it if this game doesn't have a vibrant community of jerks.

I am not under the impression that they are doing. They are keen that ESO should be set in the same world as previous TES games of course, as evidenced by the fact TES players do recognise the landscapes. They are also keen that a Skyrim player would be able to recognise the initial gameplay, certainly. However, I have seen no suggestion that the game is inherently isolationist. On the contrary, they are actively encouraging people to work together, even strangers not grouped benefit from helping each other out (in a way that is absent from a number of other major MMOs).

So you'll be content to leave the thread go if no one replies? From this point on, unless there is something against the forum rules, I won't be bothering. You might be in this for the confrontation, but, as noted above, I'm not.

it is more like your argument has nothing going for it, so there is no point in bothering to try and right some sort of big, long thing against. and that is not true, If i were in a raid, i would try my best to get the raid through. The only time i would not help someone in a riad is if they are deliberately screwing up (for example, not bothering to get out of the BIG, RED, circles that scream danger, would make me less inclined to heal him if he is THAT stupid)

Man the reason why I think my opinions are facts is that I actually observed them. We don't even need to go far to find it! Look:

See? This guy I quoted here, is speaking against me. Therefore meaning he's speaking for peace in MMOs. While being the total opposite of peaceful! Isn't irony such a great humant invention?

Seriously now. Back to the topic please. I'd like to see real opinions with arguments and examples to backup your ideas.

I'm being sincere here. GW2 really did die because of being too boring.

You know, I had no faith in humanity once.

But then I stopped being an angsty teen.

GW2 "died" because they got rid of all reason of playing and difference between classes (no holy trilogy, for example) and had no endgame, at all, other than a seriously badly mad PVP system that encourages Zerging.

Because he disagrees with you and has no requirement to convince you of anything at all. He's already convinced of what he likes. You seem to be the only one trying to convince others that bad behavior serves a purpose. For many, it serves no purpose at all. And those are the ones this game is for. And since the game direction was already decided by the developers it will be a good game for those who like it. For those who want a different game, there are other games out there to choose from.

It's really not up to us so what difference can this debate really make? Nobody is denying you your opinion. You have expressed it. Read it, there is it. They are just disagreeing with you. Nobody has called you names or flamed you or been confrontational. All they have done is disagree with your assessment.
Why not spend the time finding a game that meets your desires instead of trying to convince folks that like this sort of game that they should not? What purpose would it serve? Do you think the developers will read your post and say, "hey, we should have thought of that. Let's scrap everything we've worked on the the past 5 or so years and start over with this gentleman's desires and ideas in mind."

Nope, not going to happen. Sorry. I do hope you can find a nice fit for yourself.

Yeah, I would.

And would anyone have replied to this if they didn't disagree?

It's right under your nose. Take what you see in this thread, apply it to the game:

Someone in game says something or does something that crosses you. What do you do? You hurry yourself into the game to confront him. Heck if it's serious enough you won't even be sleeping at night.

Actually the origins or sarcasm and irony are rooted in the concept of expressing discontent or not supporting a premise in a way that sparks humor into a discussion or adds an element of fantasy so as to keep the discussion light and prevent violent confrontation from instigating. Dry wit is preferable to being challenged to a duel.

FYI

This. Assuming I am the reason for the question being asked.

Also, should I be happy or insulted the OP hasn't replied to me?

And are you contending that other people enjoy this?

This argument validates the holocaust's emotional value to the world and apparently makes it "needed".

And before you ask, yes people have killed themselves over trolls in games.

I have a right to play this game as much as you do. If someone here is playing victim, it's you guys, and I need none of your disdain when you say "Sorry. I do hope you can find a nice fit for yourself," in fact I would describe that type of tone as confrontational. It was there for nothing more than for you to shun my arguments away with nothing but semantics.

But I don't hate you for looking down at someone else's opinion just because it isn't popular. Can't allow myself to after making a whole thread on how an evil is necessary for there to be a good and vice-versa.

I've heard enough. If you don't want to have a discussion, it's worthless to continue this. Godwin's Law was broken with Killer's comment above, anyway. Ain't going to discuss nazis here. Close the thread please.

Yin and yang.
Pure psychology studies shows that 1 bad experience is equivallent to 3 good experiences of same "value".
You need both in order to enjoy something. So "drama" is indeed needed to some extent.

2/10 for the bites you got but -8 because cliche trope