Hey there. I'd like to adress a topic that may be controversial to most of you, but that I deem necesary to discuss for the sake of this MMO's survival. It's no less, the topic of drama in online games: trolls, KSers, aggressive guilds, belligerent attitudes and any other form of confrontational behavior you can think of.

My goal here is to convince you that it's actually a good thing. So sit back and take a cup of tea.

I'm a veteran MMO player. The reason why this topic concerns me at all is that many of you may come from single player games, or role-playing games specifically, and you may have different expectations of a MMO than what it truly is. You might expect the game to be a friendly environment where people simply raid together and nothing bad ever happens.

A majority of people had such an expectation of GW2, and as a result, it was a failure.

MMOs are different of other games in what it's the players who make the game. You are one of the would-be NPCs in a single player game. The Civil War of Skyrim translates into the feuds that exist between guilds on a MMO. Those annoying bandits that assault you on your travels translate into the belligerent morons who come insult you while you play an online game. But at the same time, people who create guilds and try to maintain order, represent what would be, for example, the Companions in Skyrim.

TESO is a MMORPG. This type of game really has the right title to it: it's all about role-playing with other people. It's a true virtual society in which you can chose to climb the hierarchy and become the most famous player in game, or where you can chose to dominate the economy, chose to make friends... or enemies.

But I am concerned that, by attempting to meet the solo-RPG gamer's expectations, Zenimax may ruin the game. There are three forced factions you have to join when creating your character, and many lore-based events going on. I think this is an obstactle to the game not because I hate lore (I in fact enjoy it in a solo game), but because it's the players who should be coming up with the factions. It's said player's name that should become memorable and famous, not some random NPC from TES lore. If a guild wins a battle by a mountain, that place will become famous because said guild won that war there, not because in lore there were some NPCs who killed each other there.

I am, above anything else, concerned that rules may be too strict in this game. Trolls and belligerent people are annoying, yes. But if we don't have someone to confront, and actually get emotionally involved in the game, the community just dies out. The more interactive a MMO is, the better. Interactivity is a double-edged blade, you don't only make enemies from it, you also make friends. There needs to be a challenge among players, an ambition to overcome others. And yes, there must also be guilds who oppose aggressiveness and who fight for peace. That is the yin and yang of a MMO. The problem comes when Bethesda forces peace onto the game.

Let me know what you think.

id rather go without the drama...

All that "Drama" does is make me HATE the MMO community more.

For what reason?

The problems also lie in there being too much drama and it forcing people to leave.

The right kind of drama is good. Guild rivalries and faction pride bleeding over into other mediums is good for the game. People trolling people and screwing up their raid/siege/quest/whatever doesn't really help anything imo.

That's just my two cents. It is an interesting topic though.

Well, drama is an inevitable part of every MMO, there will be some of it in ESO, I don't really agree that it's a good thing though, as it can send developers the wrong and mixed messages, as well as upsetting players who just want to have fun, there's no ned for it.

Really the best thing you can do in an MMO is find yourself a decent guild and form a community with them, as eel as using the lovely ignore list

Although I think I should mention that some forms of interactions are useful, guilds working together, strangers working together in PvP to overcome obstacles, that kind of thing is most welcome.

But people who screw around force others to then come up with counter-measures to it. It makes the community evolve, maintaining it alive.

no, it just makes them leave the group and find a new one OR if it happens enough, they just leave the game entirely.

Like with anything, there are levels to this [Seht]. There is screwing around and then there is screwing with people. Both are inevitable, but the latter tends to take the form of downright belligerence. As the community evolves, sometimes it adapts itself into a corner and gets itself surrounded by people who just screw around. Once that happens, the community will leave. Drama is great and all, but it really needs to be the right kind of drama.

However, my experience is limited. I haven't really played MMOs much.

Dramas are bad thing, but they are because people have passions (greed, deceived, less skills) and these passions are sign of good MMO game.

So good MMO will have dramas not because dramas are good, but because they can happen only in good MMOs.

So not saying anything, but i have also some concerns, if making all guaranteed / easy will not remove passions for playing.

Well it all depends how excessive the trolling is. If it's happening every day, sure he will leave. If it happens once in a while, it will force the player into becoming better at avoiding it.

When I played Silkroad Online we had terrible problems with gold botters and kids running around ruining our training areas. Result? We adapted to it, found better places and came back to annoy them instead. It became a game of ping pong. If we hadn't had that kind of trouble though, the game would have become boring. MMOs feel very empty when there's no one to interact with...

Or making the people who want to play the game and not get dragged into the soap opera "drama" quit because of it. People who are doing crap to screw around with other players for the sake of "drama" would make me reconsider bothering with the game at all.

There are in-game enemies for pve, and two other factions to deal with for pvp. I don't want to be dealing with stupid "drama" I R TEH LEETEST EVAH AND YOU SUXXOR crap. You have an uber leet bestest ever character. Congratulations. Now go away because I'm playing the game, and don't really care. Stuff like that wouldn't make the community "evolve", imo. Unless it would be to start immature "I'm gonna get you back for that" arguments that would serve no purpose.

Personally, I'm hoping Zenimax has their rules for behavior in place from the very start, and whatever those rules might be they enforce them.

Sure, just give me an ignore function so I can throw any "troll" or flamer on there immediately. I'm on a zero tolerance level for that crap.

In-game enemies are a joke. They are granted kills. They are not challenging against a group of people. Believe me, people get bored if they are not surpassing others while playing a MMO. If you are not here for playing with/against other players, why not consider playing a solo game instead?

It's the risk of interactivity. You say that you dislike people who's characters are better than yours. But by taking the risk of having to put up with such morons, you will also happen across people who you actually enjoy playing with, or end up in "an enemy of my enemy is my friend" scenarios, or anything else. We are human beings with ambitions, not zombies.

We seem to have a difference of opinion. And people are different and enjoy different things. What I think you meant to say is, "I get bored". Remember that you don't speak for "all people".

I wouldn't be too sure about that. The reason psychology works is that people are actually alike and predictable.

This thread is evidence of what I am speaking about. Why have you chosen to reply to it? Would you have spoken to me, if you actually agreed and had nothing to add, no problems whatsoever with what I said?

What makes a good discussion? What keeps a topic alive? Isn't it the fact we disagree, that we have confronting opinions?

I'm inclined to think the same of the situation in MMOs. What keeps them alive is having people who are different of us and want to do things that cross paths with us. Just like you said, we are all different. I'd simply put it differently: we are all predictably different.

Nope. You don't understand.

I don't dislike people who have characters better than mine. That is great. More power to them. I hope they have a blast building uber powerhouses with every rivet in their armor enchanted to the point they glow.

I don't care.

Big difference. I don't want to hear about their better characters. Pointless bragging and trash talking is drama crap I don't want to deal with. The type of people I want to play with are the ones who do, and don't brag. I'd prefer to play with people whose main focus is the game and their objectives, not trying to be better than DragonknightFabulous over there. I'm hoping that playing will let me find other players who aren't in it for the drama and "I've got to be better than x just because" reasons. My ambitions are to play, thoroughly explore, assist other players to achieve objectives and help my faction in the war. Personally, I'm not out to be better than other players. I would get bored if the only point in the whole thing is to be better than another player. Other people have different preferences and opinions, of course.

1. Psychology is bunk most of the time. Most Psychologists would not be able to talk their way out of a paper bag outside their office.

2. yeah, it is an opinion, sorry, if you do not think it is. most of those people all end up on my ignore list so i can keep doing whatever i am doing in relative peace, all that sort of thing does is keep me AWAY from group content and want to solo more so i would not have to deal with it. I could care less about their Uber DPS or how they are the "best" player in PVP/whatever (and they NEVER are either),

I am positive that different people like and enjoy different things. There is no doubt about that at all. And to answer your question, I am responding because I and another moderator are watching this thread closely because we half expect it to burst into flames which we don't allow here. Because people have strong opinions about what you are saying here. In fact I would dare to say most here disagree with you. But that's fine to disagree and as long as you and others remain respectful in this discussion you can discuss it.

Problem is you are stating it as if everyone else feels the same about it as you which just isn't true. You also state that you came to try and "convince us" and yet most of us here are already convinced of what we like and want in this game. That alone makes it seem as if you might be baiting an entire community into the drama you already know isn't enjoyed here.

If you came to express your views I'm fine with that. If you came to stir up a hornet's nest, that's another thing. You see, people tend to like what they like and they don't all like what you might like. Humans are strange that way. Do you prefer chocolate or vanilla?

First, I like how you ignore half the post, and then reply to the other half as if it was the whole thing.

So you don't like PvE, fine. But then you dismiss the PvP aspect as it doesn't jibe with your agenda. More on that later.

Wrong. This shows you do not understand psychology at all. What you are referring to is "Pop" psychology, and it's applications are limited.

Second, responding to someone's request for opinions etc is not the same as wanting and seeking out drama. We are here to find out more about TESO and communicate with others about TESO etc.

Also, you start off by saying all people are alike and predictable. Then you end with people are different. "Predictably different". Yes, you can predict that we are different. So?

Back to the your agenda. Pretty obvious that you are taking a run at FFA PvP, just taking a side angle, and just waiting for someone like me to bring it up. Then you can say, well that isn't what I was getting at, but it would help/extend/enhance/etc the game by providing more drama etc.

Here's the problem. "Forcing people to evolve" is code speak for FFA PvP. Don't like getting ganked? Evolve better tactics, learn better fighting skills, adapt your playstyle etc etc.

What if I like the way I play? What if I don't want to get better at PvP since i don't plan on playing a lot of PvP? Simple, I don't play Shadowbane or games like it.

One last thing. Is it Molag Bal I need to sell my soul to in order to get a like button? Several people here have earned it, and it irks me that I can't click the button. Then again maybe I am spending too much time on MWO's forums.

Well, you're a member of the community regardless.

It's, again, just like a solo game.

There are aggressive NPCS.

There are friendly NPCS.

There are those who want to be the best.

There's those who want to control others.

Those who want to be famous.

And those who just want to be left alone.

And so many more... You know, it's not the MMO that reflects the RPG game, it's the RPG game that reflects our society. It's an idea that you have to embrace while playing.

Don't misunderstand. I don't think you should be forced to join the drama, not at all. I'm all for free will. And that includes the free will to be an evil bastard, as it also includes the free will to be alone or to fight evil bastards.

What I really am against, is Zenimax making the game into a forced hippy-world where you cannot, in any way, play an evil role in the community. For instance, making solo dungeons where you do not see other players, making it impossible to player-kill, making it impossible to scam others or break the rules. I don't like it when bad things happen to me either. But if I have everything for granted, I know it's annoying. And I know it's annoying for many others too, GW2 is living evidence of it.

A game full of trolls, is just as boring as a game full of hippies, and in either case, people will leave.

Just like someone else was saying, it's a question of "good drama".

What is "FFA PvP?" Never heard that term before. Thanks

The only thing that this kind of "drama" makes me do is take full advantage of the ignore and report features.

Free For All Player vs Player I think, like a death match every man for himself or something (I think that's what he means).

I made this thread not to insult you but to state what I genuinely believe deserves to be discussed. In fact it's disappointing for me to know that for you, my opinion is nothing but an attempt to flame-bait. I put effort into writing this thread. I'm an administrator over at another TES community and I know better than to be one of the trolls which I spend my time looking after while being there. So hold your horses, there is no need to get fiery.

I prefer chocolate. But I'm glad there are people who prefer vanilla. Otherwise, it would be boring.

I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. I think I didn't put enough emphasis into my yin/yang belief in this. It's not that I think everyone should be involved in the drama. It's just that it should be accepted as a part of the game rather than to have people pretend it's not there. Yes, people who share your belief that the game should be peaceful, are just as important as anyone else. It's just that, forcing the entire game to be either a trollfest or a hippyfest is a bad thing either way.