Hello fellow gamers.

Like everyone else I am really looking forward to playing Skyrim which is to be released in 2 months or so, after hearing so much about the game I can generally say that almost everything about the game sounds perfect even though I expect to see a good number of bugs. The game seems to be very in-depth and also very immersive in its gameplay since the AI has been worked on and spells have been giving a retune (some removed, others changed and the rest enhanced etc) not to mention a whole new game engine. The combat system seems to have also been improved a great deal compared to how sluggish it was in Oblivion. Some important features have been removed (spell making and armor degration etc), however I also feel that this was necessary because many other things were added to make up for it.

However one of the biggest drawbacks which should have been its strongest positive gimmick was the new combat style dual wielding with weapons. The idea of wielding 2x spells is very creative and I applaud Bethesda for adding this in, also the ability to use a weapon and staff/torch at the same time is very useful. However where dual-wielding sadly fails to impress (where it should have blown us away with amazement) is the PC using 2x offensive weapons (sword/axe + sword/axe). Bethesda really should have done more research and more thinking with their huge melon brains before finally adding that particular feature into the game. Here are the pros and cons of dual-wielding offensive type weapons:

Pros:

1. Looks cool.
2. Perks/Enchants allow more advantages since 2 weapons are being used at once.
3. Can execute a power attack.
4. Can attempt to dodge attacks but this is very difficult to do since you cannot run backwards in Skyrim.

Cons:

1. Looks uncool with some weird and awkward animations when attacking with each weapon.
2. You can only attack with 1 weapon (1 hand) at any time so overall it would be the same as attacking with just 1 sword/axe and an empty hand.
3. You can execute a stronger power attack with a 2-handed weapon which is what those types of weapons should be used for instead of dual-wielded weapons (this problem will result in 2-handed weapons being left out).
4. You cannot block/parry enemy attacks leaving you vulnerable to damage at all times against tougher/high numbers of foes (Bethesda say that you should be able to play the game however YOU want to so how does this live up to that exactly?). It is only logical that you are able to block/parry with all melee weapons. If Bethesda were so worried about balancing or even the button mapping for consoles they should have added 2 seperate perks so that YOU could choose to block OR execute a power attack while dual-wielding by pressing both triggers at once.
5. You cannot dodge/evade as well as you could in other TES games leaving the PC even more vulnerable to most attacks (see 4) while dual-wielding offensive weapons.

My conclusion is that instead of doing what they did with dual-wielding offensive weapons Bethesda should have made it so that you could wield 2x offensive weapons but instead of using power attacks like you do with most other weapons you are able to attack rapidly and relentlessly with a flurry of attacks (costing stamina for each and every swing). This would mean being able to attack with 1 hand immediately after swinging the other and also being able to block (both triggers pressed) which would have been far better since dual-wielding 2x offensive weapons is about speed and precision and not raw power. Blocking while wielding 2x offensive weapons would always be inferior to blocking using any other method (cannot block arrows/magic attacks etc) which is why it would be balanced. Also one cannot say that blocking while dual-wielding is unrealistic because in a world where giants, magic, undead, elves and dragons all exist the word "realistic" loses most of its meaning. In the end this would have added a totally different method of combat with a new combat style which I think would have been best.

-KC

are you sure you can only attack with one weapon at a time.. do you got a link..and i feel like your way would be too over powered

O_O.....KC is criticizing something? AND an Alternative.......


I think Im going to have a heart attack


Thing about DW is, it was added late, Dragons existed which I'd approximate that by the time DW was added in, there was a combat and Magick System. Todd did say once they got that in they just wrapped everything around it.


Do I like it? no I can already flail with one weapon, what exactly is the Dynamic of 2? especially not being able to block? isnt Dual weilding weapons based on Mobility? he didn't dodge, parry, or anything (you can't do that in the first place in Skyrim) so why because its cool? I don't know.

Can't judge a book by it's cover.

Depends on what you like wanna be fast duel wield want to be more of a tank or Mage dont

Well I won't be dual wielding anything(unless its a spell or a shield). Dual wielding weapons always seemed overrated to me. If I need something in my other hand it'll either be a shield, or a spell.

The no parrying/blocking thing really ticks me off. Instead of turning that timed blocking thing into a detailed system of parries and the like, Bethesda instead decided that half of the playstyles (rough estimation) in the game must now be all about hacking and slashing... basically the PC and the enemy taking turns hitting each other. I'm honestly not too happy about it and I simply will not be able to use dual-wielding. It's a shame, too... but it will simply be too boring and feel wrong to be so... stupid (my PC, that is) as to not be able to even attempt to parry with two large pieces of metal in my hands. Someone will inevitably justify it with that "balance" nonsense... but I often find those people are thinking far too narrowly and without any creativity... or rather just repeating what Bethesda says like a parrot instead of thinking about it, at all, because balance can be achieved in far better and fun ways than just removing any defense whatsoever. I often find it difficult to comprehend that people will just accept Bethesda's answer... thinking there's only one way to ever do anything and have it work. As it stands, I simply don't think THIS will work. I saw a lot of backpedalling in the demo and I could just feel the sense of... nakedness. The PC was defenseless... completely and utterly. I got flashbacks to Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind's boring stand there and hack away combat... but with better graphics and animations that just make the poor system stand out even more.

I will be dual wielding magic mostly.

Were it could fail for me is in the combining of spell by using left and right at the same time so we shall see.

And this is a change from Oblivion how?

Duel wielders will be the highest melee DPSers in the game.

you heard it here first folks.


This is how i believe the different styles are balanced.
Duel wield : high dps low defenses.
You cant attack with both weapons at the exact same time but you can attack with one after the other in a sort of rythm so your hitting twice as often as someone with only one weapon. (an enchanters wet dream)

Sword and board style : balanced offense and defense.

2 handed:
less damage than duel wield but can block so better defensive options
More damage than sword and board, but less damage mitigation.

I would imagine the double power attack would be stronger than the power attack of a two-handed.

At least I hope it does.

I mean...look at all the Animations done for Finishers, the PC can Kick for crying out loud, and you can bash with some weapons, why are there not more dynamics? does one not notice how people stumble and move with momentum? not to mention we FINALLY have 2D plane eight way movement now (can move diagonally) parrying would be legions useful, no dodging etc etc, why was the effort put to making flashy finishers but not an in depth combat?

Oh right... aspiring to do better is a fallacy and an utterly absurd and invalid hope. Silly me... [/sarcasm]

Although, at least the satisfaction of the option to do a weaker parry or block as practically anyone at any time with anything could attempt to do would certainly be nice. As it stands, the dual-wielding mechanic may as well not be there, at all, in my eyes as it simply isn't feasible to sit there and literally only ever attack and backpedal when at least the sword and shield style and most styles in Oblivion had some blocking.

i read a few reviews from PAX that said when they got there hands on the game the dual wielding was really awkward

Five Septims says it's because of the lack to do anything but hack and slash. The sense of "nakedness" stemming from the inability to block oneself, in a logical manner that the PC somehow does not realize, no less, is certainly an awkward thing in video games, from my experience.

Funny how everyone can have an opinion on a game mechanic when no one here has actually tried it yet.

Well, I should have also pointed out that what you came up with is not actually technologically possible for them to do with Skyrim. Remember, they have to work with consoles that are at least as old as Oblivion. Even with improvements in the programming of both those machines and the game, there are still technological ceilings they cannot exceed. Most of the games that do utilize a much more complex system of blocking tend to massively more limited than Skyrim or Oblivion due to that fact.

Dual Wield magic already failed for me, especially if that's the reason there's no spell creation.

Mods will fix it.






















Please.

Funny how people think something can never be judged based on what one knows about themself and their preferences that no one else does simply because they haven't actually played it. One doesn't need to play the game to be able to tell that constant slashing with little defense is uncomfortable... especially when they've seen the system in action. They just know. I don't need to play , for example, to say that I won't like it and I don't need to play Skyrim to be able to know I don't like a forced third-person view while riding a horse as it was the first-person perspective that helped draw me to the series in the first place, for example.

The removal of blocking is pure silliness.

It's broken now but the mods will fix it. Hopefully soon.

oh none of us could have possibly played the Demo :teehee:

Pete confirmed that you can do a 2-weapon power attack.

Parrying is certainly possible. It just needs one button or button combination. To do that, Bethesda could free up the O/360 equivalent button by tying its function (the map, journal, inventory, etc.) to the start or select menu or they could simply have the dual power-attack occur as a result of only holding down one attack trigger while allowing the parry to be tied to holding down both triggers, instead. If Bethesda wanted to, it's perfectly feasible. I am a console player. I know how these controllers work, I've experienced how other developers have handled it, and I know how certain solutions would work. It is not some console controller limitation... it's just a limitation on Bethesda's technical creativity or perhaps just their lack of care or, in my opinion, grave misunderstanding of how dual-wielding would best work.

the hands-on previews already said you can attack twice as fast when duel wielding. so you can get rid of #2 of your con list

here's how I see thier balancing mind set. duel weapons= highest dps, sword and board= average attack and great defence, 2handed= high damage and slight defence, 1hand and spell= average damage for both close and ranged, 2 spells= high damage ranged with little close up defence. and that's not even accounting all the other spell option outside of destruction or being able to switch quickly to other set ups with the favorites menu to counter balence everything. not to mention shouts