Loving the game so far...about 20 hours in, just started exploring Freeside (taking my time). The one thing that I find ridiculous and immersion-breaking, though, is stealing.

Take, for example, the Silver Rush energy weapons store. (very minor spoiler) It's supposed to be a heavily guarded place, right? Guys with guns everywhere, forcing you to hand over your weapons before going inside....(somewhat less minor spoiler. but still pretty minor) seeing someone "made an example of" by the store owner for not paying full amount....yet....

(no more spoilers here)
I was able to literally steal every single thing from that store like it was no big deal. First time around, I just popped on a stealth boy and snagged everything. I reloaded my save, though, because I realized I didn't even have to use stealth at all. You know that not-often-used button to carry stuff around in front of you (right stick button on 360 controller, not sure what the keyboard command is)? I used that to pick every item off the shelf individually, carry it into the bathroom, and duck down and pick it up there. None of the numerous and well-armed guards seemed to think that it was any cause for alarm that the only customer in the store was taking every single item into the bathroom and none of the items were coming out. These are the guards that constantly say "I'm watchin' you!" and other general threatening things that well-paid guards say. The stuff in that store alone is worth thousands of caps. Thouuuusandddssss. Oh, and also...I don't know if this is story related, but you don't lose any karma for stealing from this store.

And that, my friends, brings me to the next issue: karma! What the hell is with karma? I have been robbing people blind right in front of their eyes the entire game, and my overall karma is still "very good". Not that it matters, because karma doesn't seem to do anything at all ever.

Oh, also, I don't think I even have 25 sneak. I'm pretty much set for post-apocalyptic life cap-wise, almost entirely due to stealing, and I didn't have to invest a single point into sneak. It's hilarious how easy it is to be "hidden" and steal stuff. I'll be standing in front of someone, duck down, slowly creep around them while apparently hypnotizing them with my chants of "yooouu can't seeee meeeee," and proceed to steal all their [censored].

"Hey, would you be interested in buying these cartons of cigarettes that I've totally had this whole time and definitely didn't just pick up from behind you?"
"Why, sure! How could I possibly refuse such a great deal!"

yeah I guess that's all. I'm gonna go steal some more [censored].

oh damn that's clever i never thought of using that

yeah karma is kinda odd.

I wonder if a simple way to get around this is that vendors will not buy stolen goods like in oblivion?
thus only you can use the stolen loot.

Yeah, it's way too easy to steal stuff. The same with Fallout 3. The alternative is to do what was done with Oblivion, where if you pick something up (levitate it, I mean), then the guards would come after you. The problem with this is that it's too easy to get in trouble. I was in a store and accidentally knocked some boots off the table. I pick them back up and try to position them on the table, but the minute I touch them, I hear, "STOP! YOU VIOLATED THE LAW! PAY THE COURT A FINE OR SERVE YOUR SENTENCE!"

I really hope gamesas finds a middle ground.



That's a little unrealistic, though, isn't it? If I steal something from Anvil, I should be able to sell it in the Imperial City. No way news of a petty theft would travel that far. I understand not being able to sell stolen goods to the store you stole them from, but the way Oblivion did it was ridiculous.

No,from what I have played its the same as 3.If you are hidden and steal something you won't get caught.

If it's so immersion breaking why do you do it?

I'm going with the last option.

Who in the hell is gonna follow a dude in power armor into a bathroom? Not some 12 cap an hour making security guard, that's for sure.

They only say, "I'm watching you" when the boss is looking.

My biggest gripe is getting good karma for killing fiends and ghouls when 1 shotting them from stealth I mean come on I am evil assassin lol

This, right here. Nothing else really needs to be said.



I'm a talker so I'm going to saw more though. OP, what you did, you were essentially a wal mart shoplifter. You walked into the bathroom with a DVD, opened it, removed the security tag, and walked out the door with it in your pocket. If it works in real life, why not in fallout? The game is left somewhat flexible intentionally specifically so you can chose your own path, taking a level of immersion that suits you.

I don't think it's really much of a good idea to start implementing too much 'anti-theft' into the game. Oblivion really restricted it and that ended up feeling like a joke. The Silver Rush needs to perhaps be fixed a bit (no ownership on those guns after all) but part of Fallout is that people rob and steal from each other constantly. It's a post apocalyptic world. If we had town guards chasing everyone down they'd never have a day off.

Self-imposed immersion is never as good as inherent immersion.
Even if I were to not do it, just knowing that it's possible takes away from the experience. I'm not saying it ruins it or anything (clearly I'm enjoying the game), but it definitely takes something away from it.




It doesn't work that well in real life. Especially when you're the only customer in a store and you have literally taken everything off the shelf right in front of the owner and taken it. I wouldn't call being able to take an entire store's inventory without any point investment or any repercussions "flexible". Let's use a good ol' parenting anology. Parents that let their kid drink alcohol in the house occasionally are "flexible". Parents that go out and buy their kid heroine are something else entirely.

Make it possible, but don't make it so easy that it's ridiculous.




I never played much Oblivion, but, yeah, too much anti-theft would be bad. But practically none at all is just as bad. Yeah, people would definitely be stealing from each other all the time in a post-apocalyptic world. In response to that, however, people would also start taking stronger measures to prevent the rampant theft that is so characteristic of the situation. Instead, it's so easy that it implies that these characters are more trusting of strangers than anyone I've ever met, which doesn't fit the anarchistic setting at all and is thus immersion-breaking.

Yeah, but you're not taking one DVD. That's not too difficult. I'm pretty sure people would notice a guy who takes a DVD to the bathroom every five minutes and returns empty-handed. Then once all of the DVDs are gone, you've got a problem.