I was playing with guns only, then I decided to have some fun and switch the skills of guns and energy weapons and play with energy weapons. I went to the cache I had accumulated during the game and loaded myself up with guns and ammo and headed out...

Oh wait. I can't move. Why? Energy ammo weighs a ton apparently! With guns I always set out at around 60-70 weight total which accounted for several thousand rounds

12.7mm pistol: 0.0064 ammo used with 40 dmg per shot giving 6250 (!!) damage per 1 unit weight
Plasma pistol: 0.16 ammo used with 33 dmg per shot giving 412.5 damage

Marksman carbine: 0.026 ammo used with 24 dmg per shot giving 923 damage
Laser rifle: 0.1 ammo used with 23 dmg per shot giving 287 damage

More reasons why Guns are better:
- they have the best critical multiplier weapons (That Gun and Ratslayer)
- they only need Repair skill while energy weapons need both Repair and Science
- energy weapons have no silenced weapons at all.
- AP ammo for guns is both better and cheap and abundant in stores
- all guns are hit-scan, while plasma projectiles actually fly and thus easily miss

so yeah, energy weapons svck.

What can be done?

- ammo should weigh less
- energy weapons should much decay slower so repair isn't so urgent
- some of them should be considered silenced

Because a Gun Nut designed the game.

I agree that the ammo weight and silence is a tad annoying and does not allways make sense, but.....

If EW's were no different from guns why not just stick them all in the same group and leave any form of specialisation out of the game.
No, the differences to the weapon types are what makes FO fun imo, and will ramp up replayability.
Just don't forget as well the guns strength requirement is much less for the damage they deal, they're more accurate and you require less different types as pistols allways take E cells, rifles take MFC' and automatics take EC' cells ( except recharger variants, alien tech and the Helios targeter ).
Thus saving you a ton of weight carrying around slugs, buckshot, 10mm, 5.57 and 308 rounds to fill the role of one or two energy weapons, versatility is a EW's strong point.
Science is of great use, but repair is not needed just helpfull, you could say barter is needed as well or speech or even sneak to steal back from NPC's that offer repair services.

EW's by far have more critical multiplkers to their weapon set than any other skill, just because some few "special" guns have a higher rate does not mean all guns do, as that is just wrong infomation.

Before the EW's were good, now with the patch they're uber good.
In no sense do EW's svck, they just have certain drawbacks to overcome using thought like all weapons in NV do.

What is your energy weapons skill?

Add that with EW not having AP rounds, or was that fixed somehow ? Havent used my EW char yet.

I have been a little disconnected from the world of FO3 as of late. But I do have this to say. I have always been a Gun Nut and in my opinion(not being that of an expert) energy weapons have always and always will svck....FOOK added some cool weapons that were not the standard, but still all in all, I am a certified Gun Nut to the core...

I personally think they should return to old Fallout concept, have them be big, heavy, slow, hard hitters. It makes sense when you think about all that goes into a laser/plasma weapon/ etc.

Not really. Guns have more ammo types, yes, but they also have many more guns. For instance, 5.56mm is used by

* All-American
* Light machine gun
* Marksman carbine
* Ratslayer
* Service rifle
* That gun
* Varmint rifle

This covers pretty much all stages of the game and all uses. There's never any need to carry anything other than 5.56mm ammo, which weighs next to nothing compared to MFC

If you think energy weapons svck then take Laser commander, dammaging corona (don't remember the real name), 10 luck, better criticals, and finesse. Then get back to me.

I do think that guns are a much better option but if you can build a character right, Energy Weapons are a viable option, not the best but still doable.

They svck because you touch yourself at night!

and yah, they really do svck, but I never end up using energy weapons

Guns don't have ammo that boost their damage over 150% and with DT bypass do they? Nor EW require primer, powder and lead to "recycle"?

12.7mm is absurdly light compare to 10mm and .44; 0.033lb and 0.043lb receptively.

And you should have compare the 12.7mm to Plasma Defender which does 38 damage per shot, and have near to a third of the spread. Not to mention a clip which holds over three times the rounds.

As for lack of silenced weapon, I guess a bright flash of laser or plasma bolt shouldn't give away your position (that's before we talk about cracking sound made by super heated air).

Ok without using any special named weapons.

MF cells.
Anyone off these can be used in multipule ways.
Plasma caster, a high powered almost automatic death machine against anything, at most ranges.
Tri beam laser rifle, high damage and high DT now, fairly good accuracy out weighs a shotgun without needing to switch rounds.
Multiplas rifle, almost the same but huge critical rate, and instant death on most foes when hit.
Plasma rifle not as strong as a multiplas but still bests most shotguns / rifles in everything, except for speed of projectile.
Laser rifle, the most versatile gun in the game, sniper, shotgun massive ammo clip, incredible range, ROF and accuracy and high critical chance even without perks.
Guass rifle, fritz sake this is the most powerful sniper in game, add MC mfc's sneak criticals and nothing can stop you, when up close it also acts like a single shotgun X 10.

All but three of the list of 5.56 have poor ROF and only two can be used for anything other than a single purpose well.
Also three are special guns just slightly better versions of Marksman, Varmit, and one by request of fans of the first FO games.

When we move to pistols EW's are by far superior to ammo conservation, as all use the EC.

I had all those and Laser and plasma rifles still svck. The ammo is heavy, rare and expensive. The weapons break easily.
Many of the tougher enemies take forever to kill with those, and I often find myself dead.

Just use a Gatling laser.

p.s. I only played on the very hard difficulty pre-patch

For your average player, converting guns to e-weapons - yes, they will svck.

To use e-weapons effectively you play a "power class" - A character bent on turning his foes into a pile of ash (or goo...).

Because of Laser's accuracy, high rate of fire, high critical chance - it is able to score critical hits quite often

A Laser rifle is best compared to a Marksman Carbine - The Laser rifle just hits harder.
With overcharged and max charged ammo + critical strikes every third shot or so, it becomes a beast of a weapon.

Oh, and I went back and played my cowboy build again - I found myself doing more reloading than shooting btw.

e-weapons are more work than guns, but offer better killing capacity when used properly;
but for a more balanced build, players will probably be happier with guns.

Afterthought to my last post!
The ability to immediately craft -DT ammo for e-weapons is huge!
And some guns ammo (.556) will never allow you to craft -DT ammo.

Did I mention Laser RCW was and still is the best SMG/Assault Rifle?

There's so much ammo for guns there's no point in making your own - you'll be swimming in AP/HP rounds by the time you reach 188.

.308 JSP = 1.5x damage
.50 MG match = 1.15x damage and reduced spread.

Making your own has huge benefits. This Machine + .308 JSP = Everything dead.

Excuse me? swimming in AP/HP rounds by the time you reach 188? Is 188 the last place you explore?

Neither Primm or Novac have more than few clips of AP/HP ammo; if you are S/L then the same can be said for EW cells.

yeah energy weapons lack the grittyness.

Why would I even use .308 HP? .308 JSP does almost the same amount of damage without the huge DR penalty, and I got tons of it because I bought a huge bulk of .308 from Contreras before turning him in.

OK so ammo that does +150% DAM and - 10 DT isn't gritty enough?
How about watching your foes disintegrate into piles of ash in front of you?
Maybe the next patch should include Horror factor rolls for a group of enemies that watch their leader turn into a pile of ash.

Off topic, sarcasstic but a good idea.
I like this, more games should at least attempt to have some more deep psychological effects on NPC's.

Yes. Last patch added AP properties to all Energy Ammo, excluding MF Breeder (recharger weapons), flamethrower fuel and Bulk Ammo.

I agree,it wouldhave made it more interesting in fallout 3, when I dressed up as the antagonizer, got a flamer and killed brian wilkes aunt infornt of him. If only npcs could have breakdowns. No escaping the ants.