And on that note much can unfortunately be said of http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb.

I love how all the people saying "ur all a bunch of crybabies" never reply to actual good points.

Nice, you just can't win.

Personally I'm pessimistic because I didn't really enjoy Oblivion that much and it's entirely possible it was the result of being overly optimistic based on my experiences with Morrowind. Coupled with that is my growing lack of interest in games, whether as a result of playing too many over the years, because modern games aren't as much fun, or simply due to getting older.

This thread should have been locked 2 pages ago.

Some pessimism and constructive criticism shows you care, blind fanboyism shows you dont.

It begs the question.

Indeed they are, whether they're hating on the game or hating on other people.

But criticizing is also not hating.

It amuses me that this thread is still going on, its contributing absolutely nothing to general Skyrim discussions. <_<

Yeah, kind of like your posts.

OT: Is it better to see the glass half empty and be pleasantly suprised, or see the glass half full and be utterley disappointed?

And is alienating people who were loyal fans before you came along supposed to help improve your point?

If people have qualms with changes, its their right to say so.

Hey if you like nitpicking about what forum members are being pessimistic and which ones are using "constructive criticism" then by all means continue to post on this thread. But this forum is about talking about the game Skyrim itself, not arguing about negative forum members. :nono:

Then what are you talking about? Im not arguing about negative forum members, you are.

This.

Also, did someone read the anology I made at page 4 and why TES fans ( and not just gamers ) feel the urge, and have the rights, to complain? I'm not talking only about me, but I never saw people actually making a sane reply to a post like that, no matter who made it.

EDIT: Page 5 actually.

They talked it up to no end. Every character had needs. They'd have to go and find food and a bed to sleep in and they'd dynamically choose to practice with their bow and arrow or light their dog on fire because it was barking too much. And every NPC in the game would be this dynamic. And it didn't work. It was broken. NPCs would do stupid things that would cause entire sections of the map to break down and quests to stop working because they were stupidly smart and smartly stupid. This guy's a Skooma addict. He's all out of Skooma. Who has Skooma? The Skooma dealer of course. Guess who dies immediately because the AI is not complex enough to consider the consequences of its actions and because there is not a robust enough framework to support all this dynamic decision making? And guess what starts the chain reaction that causes the guards to purge the town of all its citizens, causing you to wander in to town wanting to stock up on arrows and potions to find a deserted ghost town full of guards whose bloodlust still has not been sated? NPCs didn't have enough behaviors available for them to choose from. Every single solution to their immediate need was to either kill or steal, because delayed gratification is a pretty damn complex concept for a program to wrap its head around.

So they gutted the [censored] out of it. Now Oblivion NPCs don't do much of anything because that way they can't break the game. All that talk about how amazing and powerful the AI was and nothing came of it.



I'm no RTS fan so I can't comment on gameplay, but I can certainly say that people's anger about the pointless retcons and stark changes to characters for no reason at all in the campaign's story was well-justified. Kerrigan goes from being an evil, black-hearted, power-hungry monster to a damsel in distress, and Raynor was so madly in love with her that he forgot she murdered both an important general in their army one of his best friends in cold blood after they had established a truce and he risks his life to save her? The first Starcraft was hardly Shakespeare, but come on, really? At least keep your cheesy and cliche sci-fi metaplot consistent.

Everyone isn't pessimistic. As always, it's the vocal minority that posts negativity.

When you have a good experience at a pizza shop, you probably don't tell your friends. If you have an awful one, you're more prone to talk about it. An example would be that online anonymous reviews for restaurants always seem to have more bad exposure than good.

As it was with Morrowind, Oblivion and Fallout 3 releases... that vocal minority post here more often than those who are just excited about the game.

To every "This is going to svck, I want a map, I want to go potty, me me me, mine mine mine, NOW NOW NOW" post... there's 10 readers who just don't care because they're getting another TES game; and they know that even though Bethesda's changed their game styling's since Morrowind, they're going to get a product worth having regardless.

Like yours truly.

In my previous 2-3 posts on this thread im simply stating that this whole thread in general is pointless and should be locked by now, yes I understand my post is not contributing to general Skyrim discussions either im simply stating a point. Just look at the title of this thread, it shouldnt have been started in the first place.

Pretty much. I could see if ES games were a dime a dozen, then I wouldnt care so much if they turned one of the many into a dumbed down action game, but they are not a dime a dozen. We only have one ES and it shouldn't be ruined to appeal to people that dont even really care about the series anyway.

This "alienating the fans" goes around nearly everywhere, and by this day I don't understand it.

What are these "core elements" of TES that is supposedly have been cut from Skyrim?
-Open World? Check
-First person? Check
-Gaining skills by doing them/Be who you play? Check
-Unique world? Check

I don't know what attributes, the number of skills or quest markers have anything to do with this...

I don't like the current trend of dumbing down or "making games more accessible" and fear Skyrim may take big leaps down that road.

It's probably a completely irrational fear, and I'm sure Bethesda have much more sense than that. However I still feel as though I have to whine and show my concern along with everyone else, just so Bethesda know how opposed people are to the series going in such a direction.

Again, probably completely irrational, in fact nothing i've seen or heard about the game raises any major alarm bells, but it's because I care about TES that I still voice my concerns. Any other game series, and i'd just let the developers get on with it and simply jump ship if I didn't like the end product.

I'm not pessimistic at all. I've got a great feeling about Skyrim. Then again, my expectations are always realistic. People think the most bizarre things will be in the game at times, and they tend to hate change. I think it looks pretty amazing, myself. Though Morrowind was my favorite, and then Daggerfall, I also loved Oblivion despite how much people tend to hate on it. I'd say I put almost as many hours into Oblivion as I did into Morrowind. I find it kind of humorous that people who likely also played Oblivion for ridiculous lengths of time now bash it for not being Morrowind. The same will happen with Skyrim -- people will play the crap out of it for years, and slowly they'll start to hate on it for not being whichever game they liked best (it'd be funniest if it were Oblivion they started comparing it to, after all the stink about it.)

Bethesda makes the most incredible games I've ever played. Each one causes me to play little else for hundreds of hours upon its release. Therefore, I've got nothing but good to say about TES and indeed, about Bethesda. I know Skyrim will be a game I'll want to sink months of my life into.

That doesn't happen you don't start removing s**t at random. You can remove all the stuff you want, but think twice before doing it, damn it!


> Implying that I said that Skyrim does not have a core.

Skyrim actually have a core, but it's slowly becoming different. And anyway, all your "core elements" are the basic ones of every Open World RPG. Every series has its different core, and now we're talking about TES's core. Attributes, Skills, Customization, etc. are a part of the core.

Also, I don't think that Skyrim will be a bad game. As a game, it looks awesome. I just have the bad feeling that it will be a bad TES game. ( said by someone that was excited like a f**king cat with a laser pointer the first day I saw the trailer )

i played morrowind then got optimistic about oblivion.

thas why.

Also things like

"we want it to appeal to a wider audience"
"we streamlined the game"
"we want anyone to be able to pick up and play"

scare the living hell out of me
and give me nightmares of this game turning out to be like fable 3.

those

those are terrible terrible dreams.

This.

Sadly I think we're going to have another repeat my friend...

I think that people just want Skyrim to be the best it can be and so voice the few things they find fault with in the hopes that Bethesda will fix them.

What's funny is that Morrowind is the one that, metaphorically, exploded, and it still was... uhm... "user-unfriendly" ( aka requires a bit more of brain-melting to be used ). You know what's even more funny? 50%, or even more, of the people who played Morrowind were kids at that time... the "wider audience" loved that game.

I can see how generations of gamers are going downhill now.