I'm just so curious as to why so many people ask the question "What is the best _____"? I've notced it on these foruma bit and its really appearing in almost every game. Every is so obsessed with asking what is the best way to do something or which is the best character/ race, set of skills, gun (for shooters of course) ect ect. Why don't people just worry about what they will have the most fun doing/ using. Any comments or agreements or disagreements to this rant? Love to hear em all. Thanks.

I would love to see the word "best" disappear for the rest of eternity.

Because when you are the best, there is nobody better than you. That's pretty cool!

A less obvious advantage of knowing the best (strategy|weapon|armour|place) is that you can avoid it on later characters, to avoid becoming too overpowered.

I Neither like nor dislike the best in the case of "most powerful" to most things.
I have used all the weakest and the strongest, since I have nothing to prove on any game let alone a rpg ( which is what I play the most ), unlike in real life, I can just shift the difficulty down or cheat.

I do however believe that others have the right to play howsoever they wish, and that the infomation from others should be given freely and without bias.
For newer players the best is a good way to find out the tricks to use, and to make the game more fun, it should be given some lee way imo.

Alot of gamers have a very silly idea that making a game easier with a slider is "cheating", and have for lack of a better word "giagantnormousive" ego's when it comes to gaming imo, and need to navigate this by coming up with uber builds.

So best is not best, but its better than the rest for a few.

It's simple enough. Some people make everything a competition, even though this is not a competitive game.
They always think of 'beating' the game rather than 'enjoying' the game.

Of course, if that's how they derive enjoyment, more power to them, except the ones that can't grasp that some people play for different reasons.

People are bored, so they make such topics.

That's exactly what they're doing. They ask "what is the best ___" because they believe that they can make a mistake and, therefore, not enjoy the game as much.

The best is obviously the most enjoyable, right?

There are two ways to look at it:
- Min-maxing: The best character is the one most optmizied for whatever activity in question. Reasoning are backed up by numbers and stats. ei: Battlemage
- Personal preference: The best character is the one offering the most challenge and/or rewards. Reasoning are backed up by shared stories and experiences. ei: Thief

Either way, they both are considered "the best". So whenever you see that kind of question... you have to ask them: "What do you want to do?"

:thumbsup: Others so far made great points, too.

I dislike this type of question because the term "best" is actually quite subjective. "Best" could mean "most powerful/strongest" or "most suited to" or "most efficient" or any of a host of other meanings. The answer to "What is the best weapon in the game?" depends entirely on the character being played. If it's an archer that doesn't use blade, blunt or h2h, then the answer would be a bow (usually Hatred's Soul). If it's a knight that uses Blade, then the answer would be a sword (likely self enchanted Perfect Amber/Madness). The list goes on. Likewise, the question "What is the best way to complete (quest)?" has a myriad of answers, depending on context. "Best" could mean "quickest/easiest", "most challenging/rewarding", etc. This is why multiple answers are almost always are given to such questions.

Often, what is actually being asked is "What is the optimal (insert subject here) for my play style/character/RP in this instance?"

When I get into a game, I stay there for years. I find it quite natural to become very good at it, then eventually use that knowledge to carefully limit things to maintain a desired challenge. When I first began playing Oblivion over three years ago, I made quite a study of it and enjoyed learning how to build uber characters that could wade through anything. I quite enjoyed that at the time and got quite comfortable with the fine points of making the most of what the various skills can do in well-trained and studied hands. Because of the awesome flexibility in character development offered in Oblivion, it can be challenging and confusing at first, but eventually become a very easy game when it comes to combat.

I don't regret that pilgrimmage of learning at all; however, not surprisingly, I eventually found that the challenge offered therein became too easy for my tastes. Rather than mod the game to make it harder or bump up the difficulty slider, I began to intentionally limit or 'gimp' my characters. Therein, I have found the challenge I now seek.

I guess my point is that what people seek from the game varies, and even for the same person can evolve over time.

Exactly. I always ask people that online: define "best" I usually say.



I often try to substitute the word "favorite" for best. Oftentimes, there is no "best". Like if somebody says "what's the best Elder Scrolls game?" There is no true answer because each Elder Scrolls game is going to have features, questlines, etc, that could potentially make somebody define it as the best. Therefore, one could instead ask "what is your favorite Elder Scrolls game".

I think it's natural to be curious about how to do things in the most efficient way possible, so as to become most powerful, etc... Like knowing the limits of one's powers.

I also did that for a couple of builds: i had a sheet of paper with major skills and some minor skills, each with its governing attribute so that I could keep track of skill advances and manage lvl ups efficiently , so that at every lvl he would be the best prepared as he could.

But it svcked big time. It is irritating, time-consuming and now I can give a fig about whether I get +5 or +2 to my agility. Given time, I believe most of those interested in 'power building' give up.

What are people supposed to ask? "What's the worst?" (that does get asked sometimes! In fact I started a thread and then a poll on worst class, and I start topics once in a bllue moon.) "How can I be average?" H'mm, maybe that could be rephrased as "what's the best way to produce a mediocre character"?

There is a fair amount of role play debate here. Actually I've always found it more puzzling when people seem to need help having fun with the game. How can anyone else tell you what you'll enjoy?

Mara

Exactly.

Take this thread for instance . . . :wink_smile:

people want to know wether there is any point getting the weapon/armour if they are just going to get a better one soon. This takes the fun out of role playing which is being able to immerse yourself in the game. If you know the story before hand there is no surprise.

Absolutely this. When we all started the game, confused and alone, of course you want the most powerful whatever, cuz you are getting your ass kicked all over the place. What people don't realize is that you need a certain skill, behind that best whatever, to have it be truly effective.

I gimp my characters these days as well. Having full knowledge of how combat and the game works, it is more immersive to me, to find the items that my character wants, rather the absolute best. I'm not knocking looking for the best whatever, each to her/his own. My characters live in the game world, there is no such thing as "beating it."

At least for this forum.

If the game is made so there is a best weapon, race, spell, armor, birthsign, etc then the game is, in my opinion, not built correctly.

An RPG like Oblivion should involve choices. Each with positive and negative aspects.

So in the game there should be no universal best. I in fact don't think the game goes far enough here. For example, Heavy Armor should provide a huge amount of protect, but also hugely slow your character down.

In my opinion getting the so-called 'best' weapon and armor has nothing to do with roleplaying (unless, I suppose, one happened to be roleplaying a character who absolutely had to have the best weapon/armor every second). In my experience, and generally speaking, the preoccupation with 'best' armor and weapons happens on the the player's side of the screen, not the character's.

Same thing goes for knowing the story. Knowing the story happens on the player's side of the screen, not the character's. And it's a roleplayer's job to abandon their side of the screen and inhabit the character's side. Now, I can't speak for anyone else but I can't roleplay unless I already know the story. My first time through a game I usually semi-powergame while I learn the story, learn the controls, become familiar with the landscape, etc. It's only after I've absorbed all that information that I can make a character who will fit into that world. The better I know the story the freer I am to concentrate on roleplaying my character. I see myself almost as an actor learning a new part. An actor usually does not 'enter' a character until they've rehearsed the play a few times.

I started to answer one of those threads about "best weapon" to say it was the console - kills anything in one command, even the essential characters! And then I realized that there were a lot of people who wouldn't see the satire, and go off and use it, exactly the same people that start those threads. So I used the really powerful weapon, the delete key.

I ended up pointing out that the optimum would change during the game, and depend on both the enemy and the player's skills and equipment, and so there wasn't a single "best" and left it at that.

I wasn't bored lol. I just see everyday someone asking what's the best ___. Now for some examples it makes sense like "What's the best way to do a quest toget the bonus (darkbrotherhood)? That makes sense to me. Everyone likes a nice shiny new toy to play with haha. But I just don't see the point in asking someone else what is the best oh say class for example. One, everyones opinion of a best class is different so it will probably confuse the person severely on what is what. Two they should first find something they like, say an assassin build, then tweak it themselves or then ask other people " what could make this better?" But not stray to far from the enjoyment they have in the class. The one question that always gets me on here is "What's the best race for a ____ class"? I never understood it because 1: all race has to do with the game is your powers/abilities 2: any disadvantage a race has (ex Khajiit having 30 endurance) can be fixed later on by enchantments or endurance skill lvling. I think people should pick a race not because it gets a silly advantage for level 1 that can be evened out later on, but they should chose from if they really like the race, lore, looks or whatever about a character. For me for example, I like to either play Bretons, High elves, or Khajiits. High elves/ bretons because their lore says they are highly skilled mages and I feel if Oblivion was real I would be most like either of the races. Khajiits, who doesn't want to be a walking tiger?! And their lore is really interesting. Ok I've done enough ranting for this single post happy rpg ing everyone :foodndrink:

My goodness - well said. I feel exactly the same way. And I also do best if I know the story, but keep that from my character. Yes, it hurts sometimes watching her naively walk into ambushes or offer help to someone that I know is going to respond by attacking her. It hurts to see her try, but fail, to paralize a vampire during her first encounter with one as she learns they are immune to the effect. Yet, it is her path to forge.

For the same reason people use walkthroughs on their first play through the game.

I have a post which asks for your least favourite city, not the one you think is the best

Yeah, I know you had a serious question. I was poking fun at myself and those like me who spend time at work posting silly and pointless posts to the Oblivion boards. Like I'm doing right now. I can't play Oblivion while I'm in my cubical and actual work is a drag and if I do too much work then their going to expect if of me all the time, so instead, I while away productivity by hanging out here.

As to your actual serious question, I am totally and completely with you. All games, not just role playing games, have an innate tension between game mechanics versus the target simulation. This is true of paper and pencil games just as much as it is with video/computer versions. Back in the day, when I used to play DnD, there would be the same tension between players who were motivated by being the best in-game versus those more focused on role play and character development. The players with "best-itis" maximized their character's stats through optimal exploitation of the game mechanics. Players with "role-play-itis" (like myself) spent more time on writing character histories and intentionally working weaknesses into character builds to reflect personality or background.

I don't think one way is better than the other; it’s just a different style of play and a different focus of interest. Some people want to have the best character by optimally understanding and exploiting the game mechanics. I don't do that but it doesn't bother me a whit that other people do. I prefer to hallucinate that I'm a cat-man with a sword sneaking through a scary dungeon for glory and gold. Focusing on the game mechanics kinda takes away the hallucinogenic quality of the experience.

This tension is much more problematic in games that involve head-to-head competition. This is especially true with my other interest, table-top wargames. These kinds of games are very explicitly intended to simulate warfare from some specific time and place. They usually come with extremely complicated rules. But the rules can never completely reflect the complexities of reality and you can always exploit game mechanics in a way that doesn’t reflect the actual strategies and tactics used historically. In these competitive kinds of games the two styles of play become incompatible. Essentially the players have to agree ahead of time whether the final arbiter will be the game mechanics (rules) or historical accuracy.

just a little gamer theory.

People like winning and doing well and owning people. Also when you are beginning you just wanna make sure that your choices aren't gonna result in you getting owned repeatedly when you play.