Too many people out there with a sense of selfish entitlement. They want to play a game because others are playing that same game.. but if they don't enjoy the game they feel they've been wronged in some way. This just means this game wasn't meant for you. Not everything has to be made for everyone. If you dont' like something.. well, that's kind of your own problem.

So that's why Bethesda games sell so much nowadays...

bc the games are good???? lol

This gets back to the varied definitions of "RPG".

Over the years, I've seen "RPGs" with:

- no character definition, no story choice/consequence

- pre-defined character, no story choice/consequence

- no character definition, choice & consequence

- pre-defined character, choice & consequence

Different people will say that different ones of those aren't RPGs. Or are. (Well, and there's also the issue of how much stats/skills/equipment makes an RPG. Mass Effect 2 had a semi-defined character, and choice/consequence, but ME1 fans complained it wasn't an RPG anymore because they reduced the amount of skill & inventory management from ME1.)

(#1 is your typical old-style party-based dungeon crawler or MMO. Create 1-6 characters who are only a collection of stats, work them through a linear story with plenty of combat. #2 is most JRPGs, most ARPGs and some WRPGs. #3 is Baldur's Gate/etc, some Beth games, some others. #4 is Bioware/The Witcher/etc.)

No, just, no.

At least post why you think they are, otherwise that comment is just sad.

Heck, I think it's all a LOT simpler than that:

Fallout 4 fails as an RPG because Bethesda weren't interesting in developing it as an RPG. And it succeeded so well because people have long been drinking Bethesda's kool-aid, blinded by the "pretty" and the "I can move any object!" and convinced their games are deeper than they really are.

I've been playing tabletop roleplaying games since the early 80's and in videogame form since about that long - in all this time if there's one thing I've learned it's that there is no universally-accepted definition of a "roleplaying game." Tabletop players cannot agree on this (especially when it comes to where the line between RPG and wargame is drawn, what rules are necessary if any, how defined the characters need to be, etc.) Videogame players certainly cannot agree on this either.

I have never in my experience encountered a situation where someone said "this is what a 'real' RPG is" and had everyone agree with them.

The most accurate synopsis I've ever seen was basically "here is the sort of roleplaying game I most enjoy playing."

I think FO4 succeeds well as an RPG game. Is it perfect? No, but I've still been enjoying the game and have had no problems roleplaying the character that I want to play as. Just because a game doesn't caintain the exact RPG elements (of which there are many variations of) that you want it to doesn't mean that it isn't an RPG game, it simply means that this just might not be the type of game for you.

ohhh wait yeah i agree with u, that why i dont understand why ppl keep complaining about Fo4. For me Fo4 is as much RPG as any other game that is define as a RPG. Maybe diferent but still one.

Every games needs improvements, that doesn't mean it's a bad game. So far I'm pretty sure Fallout 4 is the most advanced the human industry can provide of an adventure game, just look at the complexity of the structures created in this game. If you have any idea how a game is made, from modeling, texturing, animation, voice-recording, story-writing and most important, putting everything together, you will know how complex and awesome this game is.

this

playing on an amd chip (r7 370) and not only has it yet to crash or give me any problems, it's running great at highest settings.

lol, your deluding yourself. games don't sell 10's of millions of copies because people just "drank the kool-aid" I've seen it many times, people will spit the kool-aid out in a second when they think the developers have ruined a game, just as you have. the problem for you, is your in the vast minority. most people simply don't agree.

Do you even know how much Bethesda spent money in marketing for this game?

And no, they won't spit it. At all.

Of course it's the vast minority, Bethesda gets so many new fans every day. What do you expect?

I remember when someone told me that Diablo wasn't an RPG because RPGs had to be turn-based games like Final Fantasy.

hahhahahahah and ppl on some of this post have said that FF isnt a RPG. lol like i said no one know what a RPG mean for video games lol

"Drank the kool-aide" = "I hate this product and no one should be allowed to like it either!" It's a meaningless buzzword along the likes of "dumbed down" that people with no legitimate point to make say.

What are you on about? This game is massive so of course you have to make sacrifices. In the amount of time I've put into fallout 4, I haven't crashed or come across a single game breaking bug. As a reference, I couldn't start Skyrim because the dragon, in the opening scene, never touched down (a game breaking bug before I've even started playing).

The dialogue system blows, there's no arguing with that, but if I have to make the "sacrifice" of locking at 1080p 60fps, to get a massive smooth running game, I'll make that "sacrifice".

Of course. Most people, not most Black Isle fans. That doesn't mean people aren't drinking kool-aid here. Bethesda is the Jonestown of gaming, way I see it. Sometimes that kool-aid just tastes too good to spit out!

Yeah, yeah we get it. You hate Bethesda. You make that very clear in every one of your posts. Maybe your blind hatred of them just keeps you from realizing that some people simply enjoy the games for what they are. Personally I find RPGs that Obsidian makes boring, but I'm not going to go on my own personal smear campaign on their forums because of it.

They're just different types of RPGs, and as amazing as it sounds people actually do like different types of games.

This whole RPG or not discussion has puzzled me through the years. For me,if the character is interactive and one which you can roleplay and that character progresses due to decisions you as a player makes in the game it's an RPG.

But really, I don't get all caught up in the definitions of a game. For me, I either enjoy playing a game or I don't and the games I enjoy most people define as a roleplaying game. If elements of different genres are added to a roleplaying game, for me at least, that just adds more flavor but does nothing to take away from the basic game nor does it change the basic genre.

I don't know yet if I will like this game as I've yet to play it but I do have high hopes. I've noticed on the forum we've had far fewer complaints this go round and most that we have had are either bugs which I'm sure will be fixed or the same old, "this is not an RPG" "This is not a Fallout Game" stuff that comes with each and every release Bethesda has ever done.

So I say...who cares? If you enjoy Fallout done by Bethesda, play it. If you are insulted by Bethesda's take on it, move on because it won't change. Either you change or nothing changes. This is their second Fallout game....it did well and it won't change back into your idea of a Fallout game. If you just don't like it or think it's not an RPG...find a game you do like and play it.

It's all good either way. After all we are all just a bunch of gamers wanting to play a game we enjoy. And that's what we should be doing. Playing a game we enjoy regardless of anyone's definitions and opinions and rants.

"The sage does not expect that others use his criteria as their own."~Lao Tzu

It's Thanksgiving, guys. I'm not at my computer.

Stop disparaging and generalizing people who don't agree with you. Insulting large swaths of members here for any reason will be grounds for warning - we all know this by now, its nothing new.

Do not insult people.

Don't.

Insult.

Other people.

If you can't be mature, then at least be civil toward each other.

I have to say, when I started playing it was fun and exciting, but now the more I play, the more I'm disappointed.

The game would be great if I had never played any previous titles before, but as I have played Fallout 3 and New Vegas, I just can't get past some of the things that were removed/dumbed down, like dialogue system being one of the main examples. There are few decent followers around that tells you their story, but other than that, it feels like most NPCs are there just to give quests, there is nothing else, nothing interesting about them to make you remember them, because you can't talk to them about other stuff.

And then there are some new features that look awesome at first, but once you get into it you see it's really lacking and seems unfinished. Two best examples: Crafting (most of the cool looking stuff has no stats and can't be upgraded even with the mods that you get from certain quests) and settlement building (often more frustration than fun. It needs more "optimizing" and way more stuff to build with).

Then we have main story, I haven't finished it yet myself, but from what I have read, there is not much of an impact once you finish it. Just like Skyrim, you became faction leader and then what? Can't do anything, doesn't make a slight difference from before when you were just a member, even NPCs wouldn't recognize you as their leader. I'd rather stay regular member, would at least not be as immersion breaking. If you're doing something, do it right, not slap some half done piece of crap into game. But I'll wait for this and see if DLC maybe expands on that in this game.

I didn't even have any expectations, didn't think about fallout4 until it came out and I'm still disappointed. I thought they couldn't ruin the game, maybe story won't be anything special, but other than that it should be fallout, but with more stuff and more quests, more fun yeah? Well, unfortunately.... it's not a bad game, it's still fun, but It's hardly fallout now.

And that says it all. You find it to be dumbed down, others don't. You can't get past it. Most just move on to another game. It's a game. If we don't like a game, it should be quite easy to get past it.

It's just not really important enough in our lives to stay stuck on it. Merely a game and one you don't like. It's ok. Not everyone likes it and those that do play it. Those that don't...should try to get past it.

You seem to have completely misunderstood my post, spinning it to how you see fit. Odd how it is your very sensibilities which are stirred, while I never claimed to be particularly offended by the post. It is merely outdated logic.

Playing DnD is not a barbarian's pasttime. But statistically you won't find as large a pool of players like in the 80s, for instance. I am guessing you are in your late twenties/thirties? If not you might be one of those rare young people who have taken up DnD. Hobbies have evolved too, keeping up pace with technology and the current way of the world.

What is barbaric, however, is demanding that things don't evolve, pounding an iron fist with vehemently violent conviction (VVV as it's known).

If that were true, then a Role-playing game would have remained confined to pen-and-paper. Fallout 1 is no more an RPG than Fallout 4, as you can't truly replicate the ingenuity of real people at a table, making up a myriad of scenarios and outcomes. Computer programs are pre-determined, they will always have the same outcome, and as such a cRPG offers an extremely limited experience in comparison to what was originally possible.

Things change, they progress regardless of how regressive they may seem to old eyes and rose-tinted glasses, and trying to hold on amidst the hurricane that is progress will only make you tired and even more jaded.

Not sure what exactly you're trying to say here, because that's pretty much obvious. I'm just here to give feedback and share opinion like everyone else and maybe hope if enough people would share similar ideas, Bethesda would maybe notice it and would consider doing things differently next time. I thought the forum is place for such discussion?