To echo a bit of what Summer is saying, which is absolutely correct by the way, its okay to have criticism about the game but you are ultimately sabotaging your cause by phrasing it as "dumbing down".

I don't like the new voiced protagonist and the dialogue system that results from that. But this new system is not dumb, it is not somehow made for inferior gamers, it is simply something that I do not enjoy as much as how it was previously. By making it as a case of humble personal taste, and not throwing insults at Bethesda, this criticism is much more likely to make it through and have Bethesda take it into consideration.

The more people talk about "Dumbing down", the more it discredits everything they have to say, and it reaffirms that Bethesda is doing the right thing.

This.

Bethesda's love must have been fleeting for the original games, considering how quickly they've cannibalized the series into TES and loosely draqed the Fallout aesthetic over entirely incongruous mechanics.

Well, Fallout was the only other Fallout game. And I can't say if or how it changed from 3 to 4. I know there are still the same complaints from a few of the early Fallout Fans and those complaints sound the same as with 3. I hear on the forum quite often that they have taken the rpg elements out, they have further dumbed down the game again (been doing that since video games began) I hear a lot of raving of it being bad and of it being good. I haven't played it so...I just have no opinion yet. I do hope to play it soon.

So tell me, what is your perception of how that worked out?

Of course people share their criteria. But your criteria is your own. It won't match anyone else's because we are all unique. Usually though we can find some who share one or the other or a couple of our thoughts and ideas. But really the only thing that will influence Bethesda or most other game companies is their own ideas, their own sight of the future of their games and big money. We as consumers decide the success of each game when we buy it. Our feedback has an effect when it is huge numbers of consumers complaining about the same thing or sells drop. If enough complain about one aspect of the game, it will probably change in future games. But for a few...unlikely.

And for the DLCs, in Fallout:3 there were huge numbers who complained about the game having an ending. With that outcry, a dlc was released to change that. So yes, they listen to large numbers who want the same thing.

Ok can all of u, explain me how u keep playing a game that u dont like??? bc for what i get u guys didnt like Fo3 either.

It's just a battle of diction at this point

I don't think the phrase 'dumbed down' does the argument any justice, largely for the reasons you've proposed.But features such as the dialogue system are demonstrably simpler than previous iterations, that cater to simpler needs of casual gamers that want to be able to glance at the dialogue options and 'get the jist of it'.

That's not a problem, and every gamer should have the autonomy to play how they want, but that notion is contravened when players seeking nuance and depth in dialogue are no longer able to find.

I'm not against 'casual gaming', but I'm opposed to casual interests replacing the depth that was once found in a core series like Fallout; and the argument 'play something else' doesn't suffice imo.

there is a huge diferences between AC and Fallout.

AC wasnt just a bad game with bad mechanics (when actually it have some good mechanics) it has horrible performance issues, not as bad as Batman AK but close. That took alot of ppl out of the series not counting that AC Unity was the 6 game on the series. And Unity have the less change from all the game (main change was add Co-op). And Syndicate actually is doing ok on the Console and PC, bigest issue is facing was the date of release, one that is full with major release of other games, Tom Raider is suffering from something similar.

On the other hand Fallout 4 have alot of changes from Fo3 or Nv, good or bad (that depend on your opinion), it one of the first Bethesda game that have this little issues on lunch, and the ppl complaining about it is a minority compare to the ppl enjoying the game.

Hear Hear. Well said.

In short because Bethesda makes great games, and with some persuasion and adjustments could make great 'Fallout' games as well.

yeah im the same as u, i dont like the new dialogue system either, but all this critics the game is receiving are just plain insult most of the time and is become really tired.

Excuse me? He needs to get past his own opinion? Have you even played the game fully and experienced what the dialogue has to offer on a whole before making that claim?

In any other circumstance I'd overlook this comment, but when you claim that "all opinions matter" yet then inform others "They need to get past their own" it does give cause for concern. I'm sure no harm was intended, but that's what the situation looks like from my outsiders point of view.

While true, it doesn't prove the eye can see that fast. Catching an image in a frame doesn't mean you can track it frame to frame at that speed. Just means that the flash occurred in a frame that the eye caught. On top of that, pilots have some of the best eyesight in the world. It's actually a prerequisite to being a fighter pilot that you have natural 20/20, and having higher is appreciated. Not to mentioneed they have trained at seeing things faster than 99% of humans even come close to experiencing.

I wouldn't say it's been dumb down just bare and step back from Fallout 3(and yes NV but people don't want to mention it since it's not a Bethesda game)

Seriously? How are you okay with this?

Bethesda shouldn't be looking to make a game for everyone. They should be looking to make games for their fans, and that requires taking feedback from those fans.

Instead of making Fallout 4 like Borderlands/Mass Effect/The Witcher, they should have made it like Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas. They should be catering to the people who already play their games, not the people who don't.

"B-but they can't make money if they do that!" you'll say. Well, [censored]. They made enough money with Morrowind/Oblivion/Fallout 3/Skyrim to make Oblivion/Fallout 3/Skyrim/Fallout 4.

They can afford to make games for their fans, and that is what they should be doing. Fallout 3 was a major success without a voiced protagonist, dumbed down dialogue system, and magic items. That proves Fallout 4 could have been just as successful without those things too.

I don't know what were those complaints about but I think Fallout NV played very similar to Fallout 3, with just some good improvements. While Fallout 4 is quite different. You spend a lot more time shooting now than before, since you don't have much to talk with NPCs, Previous titles also provided better replayability and more options for roleplaying.

I'm not sure why you're making this to sound like we're trying to insult someone with "dumb down " phrase. It simply means that they oversimplified certain aspect of a game and arguably make it worse or less enjoyable for no good reason.

I think you're making a big deal of something that is very simple. You're making this out like I have huge list of little things that bothers me and i'm the only one with these complaints No, I barely gave two or three examples that are huge parts of the game and I'm sure a lot of people agree with me, especially as far as I've seen in reviews, forums and talking with friends. So it's not really much of my own criteria I'd say. Even if you want to call it my own criteria, it doesn't matter, because a lot of people agree with me. I'm not saying we're majority, but like I said, time will tell.

Also, see, you said it yourself, that outcry made them make DLC for Fallout 3 to change endings (i totally forgot about that). So, what you said earlier that giving feedback will likely change nothing was not the best response. It may change or it may not. Reviewers also often take on fans feedback and it reflects in their reviews, so Bethesda doesn't have to read forums, they will get the feedback from other sources.

Thumbs up mate.

It doesn't matter so much what your intentions are so much as how your words are perceived. Saying something is "dumbed down" implies that anyone who enjoys it is dumb for enjoying it. It comes off as an insult.

Not get past his own opinion. One's own opinion is to be valued. It's what makes us who we are. But yes, all of us must get past our disappointments because if we don't we become very depressed and bitter old people. I have many opinions but I don't expect anyone else to share them nor do I expect a company interested in attracting large number of consumers to cater to my own personal desires. If they don't please me, I find a company that does. This is true no matter what I buy or consume. A restaurant doesn't serve food I like...I go to a different restaurant. The company that makes my soap changes how it smells and I find it offensive, I but a different soap. I actually wrote to Procter and Gamble once because they changed the scent of my hubby's shampoo. I got a letter back, samples and coupons for the new product I was complaining about. Then I proceeded to find a shampoo to my liking. I may or may not like this game once I play it but I assure you I'll express it a couple of times here but I won't bemoan my dislike too often or too much. I will just find a game to play I do enjoy.

Well if fans are counted, it seems they have quite a few. All business exist to make money. And yes, I'm ok with that.

That's one of the reasons I prefer NV to Fo3: not because I dislike Bethesda's take on the series, but because NV is just Fo3, but expanded. The gameplay and mechanics are nearly identical so it plays very similar, but there's more stuff: more factions, more quests, more gear, more companions, a larger map... it's a very good sequel, in my opinion.

If you get insulted by such thing.... well i'm not going to continue, because i'm afraid I might insult your further without even trying.

sorry dude that isnt how real world work. =P

And if Bethesda or any companies keep making their game just for their fan and not trying to get new fans would be a waste of time and resources. Look im a fan of Bethesda games, been playing since Morrowind. I have 0 reasons to think they didnt make Fallout 4 for me.

More options for roleplaying? I felt railroaded practically the entire time I played FNV. The only improvement to roleplaying for me was starting out as a generic courier instead of some father, mother, son thing. Too bad most of the rest of the world was empty without mods.

What is great about Bethesda games is that you can pretty much ignore the main quest and just exist in the world exploring, doing side quests, and now in Fallout 4, build entire settlements. The character *lives* there and is not just some protagonist in a story. If Bethesda took out the main quest entirely, it would be fine.

As for the voiced protagonist, I don't particularly care for it, but people can't say that it was because Bethesda wasn't listening to fans. I've seen any number of forum threads in places complaining about silent characters and how they couldn't roleplay because their character was silent and how Bioware games were better because the character talked and they felt that they could relate to him/her better, etc. etc. etc. Now we have a voiced protagonist and now suddenly there are complaints about that too.

There are far too many positives in Fallout 4 to nitpick about a couple negatives.

And everything they add is broken as hell, that why i prefer Fo3.

What I think?

I think, as I always do, that I don't buy conspiracy theories without some form of solid proof, at which point they of course stop being theories, and either proves to be nonsense speculation or truth. That easy.

I agree with you in general... But, TES and Fallout are unique.

yeah, lol even now u can go and see post about how more ppl like the voice protagonist over the silences one.

Again is the same 8-10 ppl complain on and every post.