Again, it doesnt mean he's strong willed. It just means he's well liked and knows when to accept death. Don't get me wrong, even Ulfric liked him as a person. They were good friends, apparently



Hey thats not cannon!

Not really. One, anyone could say they were brave when they died. But he didn't make great decisions, apparently


I just want to apologize for my spelling for a second. This computer doesnt have firefox

Prowess in battle and ability to lead in battle were very important in medieval and ancient societies, and still are if your country is under threat. There are advantages to having civilian leadership of the military, but with the current government allowing the Thalmor the run of the place, they have forfeited legitimacy anyway. Elisif is a good puppet, I think you mean. You're meant to feel sorry for her, but I don't see any competence, and she certainly doesn't have the respect even of people in Solitude.

Solitude is a rich city, which is not the same thing as well run. The Imperials are certainly gifted at exploiting their provinces.

Ulfric will have his advisors, too, and if he prevails he agrees to submit to the moot so it's not as if he's overturning Skyrim's system of government.

Oh nonononono. I'm not saying that. Im saying the High king shouldve learned it for defence purposes

or maybe not. IDK what the hell I'm talking about anymore

Who says people loved him? The only comment I heard about his rule was that he wasn't a very good king and was more concerned with entertaining his pretty wife than ruling. Someone says he respected Ulfric and would have followed him if Ulfric had asked for him to declare independence. Well, hello... did he even talk to Ulfric about that? Not only couldn't he make a decision on his own, apparently he couldn't even be arsed to ask for Ulfric's support, or make plans, or actually DO anything. The impression I get is of someone who's likeable, naive, and utterly passive.

Got to solitude...

Clearly you have no knowledge about what it takes to be a good leader, or you would not have even considered posting this.
EDIT: or anything about willpower

I went there plenty of times and never heard them say that. They say soomething like 'yeah high king? He's a pretty cool guy."

"Sigh"...Emperor Uriel was Fearless in death....Titus Mede the second Was fearless in death(And he was possibly one of the Best emperors...)...All these People were Very strong-willed and they Faced there death with nO FEAR

What part of "hostile to direct contact" sounds like he's a sleeper agent?

The Thalmor still hope they can use him someday. They consider him an asset, not an agent. An asset is someone you hope to steer toward your ends. They are hoping to be able to steer Skyrim toward chaos, and consider the Markarth incident a success in that regard, whereas a Stormcloak victory would not be.

Reading comprehension, dude.

If you only knew.

But It still stands. Doesn't mean you're a good leader. If he was, he'd do stuff a lot different

"A sleeper agent is a spy who is placed in a target country or organization, not to undertake an immediate mission, but rather to act as a potential ASSET if activated."

Pretty sure that it was in Solitude I heard that line about Torygg not being much of a king and more concerned with entertaining his pretty wife than ruling.

When you ask in Solitude if Elisif is a puppet, they all pretty much say "yes, but..."

Not even her own townspeople respect her. And then there's the fact that she maintains her dungeon as a torture chamber, but I digress...

Alright, let me put it this way. I could be fearless, brave and whatever. But I could also be really bad as a King.

Actually, an Imperial victory is apparently also not considered as a success in their little book. Just sayin'

Them dirty elves just want to drag this war on and on, until the Empire(the only major obstacle here) crumbles so they could stomp their way to the East coast at their leisure.

I'd be better distposed towards Ulfric and his Stormcloaks if they knew what soap was and how to use it.
Dirty rebel sc*m. :wub:

The document also says that they "allowed him to escape". Not that they let him out of prison. The sneaky bastards mind[censored]ed the guy into believing that he got away on his own merit. So if they are pulling any of his trings - they are doing it from behind the curtain. But hey, history is full of examples of regimes sending in assets and said assets then turning on them. I think that whatever officer in German intelligence that said "Let's give Lenin money" would have been embarrassed by the eventual outcome.

I roleplay that my Stormcloak Nord Bathes.


I know, a little out there, right?

Reading the uptight elf document, this is what I gathered:

1: High elves are full of it
2: High elves are evil
3: Ulfric is not a sleeper agent, he's their enemy's enemy, and can thus be used.

An "agent" is someone who is knowingly and willingly acting on behalf of an outside group. Ulfric is not an agent- nowhere does it say that in that document. In fact it says the opposite, that he is hostile to any direct approach, so they are trying to steer him through subtler means.

Notice it says he was "allowed to escape." This means he thought that he escaped on his own. He wasn't briefed, sent out with a mission, etc.

JFC. I'm so sick of pointing this out to people. ZOMG HE'S A SPY takes over and people don't actually read the damn thing.

You are Imperial at heart, you are just in denial. :wacko:

Hail the Empire and its quack legions!
United we stand, divided we bicker and gossip.

Can I copy and paste this whenever someone uses the "He's a sleeper agent" argument next time?

But yeah, they're right

I know. They want the war to drag on, not for either side to win. Even if Skyrim stays in the empire, the Nords will be rabble rousing over the Talos ban and will push the empire towards war. If the Stormcloaks win, Skyrim will kick their agents out and is free to plan a defense on its own, and the empire will realize it can't depend on OPB (other people's blood) to save its ass, and maybe get serious about defending their territory on their own.

I understand that. Torygg is stated as having "some martial training", although given his age, it is unlikely he has had much opportunity to win his spurs. Given the mentors he would have had access to, it's possible he could have become a skilled warrior, particularly if Ulfric had decided to work with him. This still fails to address my point: a medieval society where the existent succession can be sidestepped by killing the guy in charge is a recipe for disaster. Not "overthrowing the guy in charge", which was already common both in the real world and in Tamriel, but just "hey let's fight, winner gets crown".

I wouldn't call Elisif competent either. Not yet. But with the advisers she has, her empathy for her subjects, and a little time, I believe she could be a good ruler. In the mean time, she would have Tullius on-side to assist with military matters; it's stated by one character (can't recall who) that one of the reasons Tullius is in Solitude is to advise Elisif. I was never particularly taken by Ulfric's current advisers, who seemed more like old war buddies appointed to various posts, but YMMV.

Last point: Ulfric agrees to the Moot after replacing any Jarl who would oppose him. That's an overthrow in my books.