Racist n'wah!

Where is the Dragon army coming from? The Dovahkiin only has one dragon ally to call on, as Parthanaux is sworn to peace. He didn't even help fight Alduin, just flew around in a circle. So I am not seeing the army of dragons anywhere. And the shouts are powerful, but not powerful enough to destroy an entire army or save one. The Thalmar beat the Empire when it was solid, and they had viable military tactics that involved things other than charge in and hope to break the enemy.

It's like saying that the Vikings alone could defeat Attila when Imperial Rome has a whole struggled to destroy him.

EDIT: I have not been able to find any proof, but I have a hunch that since the Mages Guild of the Empire was dissolved, and its replacement seems to be more academic than anything, the Empire has relied more on heavily on ordinary soldiers without the widespread use of magic (i.e. the Mages Guild Imperial Battlemages). I believe that is one of the reasons that the Thalmar were so successful against them. They are High Elves for the most part. It is relatively safe to assume that there is a rather large population of battlemages and healers in their standard armies. That can have a lot of sway on a battlefield.

If anyone has found evidence that backs this up or denies it I would greatly appreciate it if they shared it. This is just a hunch based on my knowledge of the lore of the games and reliable predictions of outcomes based lore and actual history.

I like him.

Don't judge a book by it's cover.

Ulfric killed the high king

Cheers

The problem is, Skyrim would currently be mopping the floor with the Thalmor if Ulfric wasn't a head-strong idiot.

This would occur if he asked Torygg to declare independence:
"Torygg, I request that we break away from the Empire, so we are free from Altmer oppression, and can worship freely."
"I respect you, Ulfric, and your motives. I think Skyrim stands the best chance united as a sovereign nation, and defeating those that would try to conquer us."

Bam, that's all he had to do. Instead, this happens:
"TORYGG! I WANNA KILL YOU! YOU WANNA DAI!?"
"I..... um.... accept your challenge?"
"FUS RO DAH! Now Skyrim no longer has a king, half the people hate me, and the other half are going to get launched into a blood civil war, in which countless hundreds will die against the Thalmor and the Empire."

But the Aldmeri Dominion likely won't punch the Greybeards in the face that three times to piss them off . And it kinda undermines the new pacifistic way of life Paarthurnax is teaching them if you recruit them for the war, and that's assuming he allows you to. He's a friend of the Dovahkiin and everything, but I just don't think he'd want to get involved in a war between mortals just because Dovakhiin demands it.

I was just pointing out that claiming half the Legion are Nords is a bit much. The Legion is very multicultural, with members being from each race, though the Nords and Orsimer, and some Redguards are commonly found among the Legion due to their martial prowess. But with High Rock, Cyrodiil and a good number of the displaced Dunmer also making up the Legion, I doubt it's such a skewed split.

The Legion couldn't save Orsimer from the combined Redguard and High Rock forces, but they did attempt to save who they could. It's mentioned in the recent ES book, one of the legionnaires is an Orc who joined after seeing a squad of Legion troops sacrifice themselves to get the Orc villagers to safety.

I think your also overestimating Dragonborn's abilities. Aid in the fight? Sure. Stop the Dominion single-handedly? Don't think so. Unless he has tgm on, then he has god powers, otherwise he just has shouts

They aren't trying to destroy the Thalmer right now. They are protecting their homeland. The Thalmer will exhaust and retreat after all their resources are used up in the desolate area of skyrim.

Vietnam against U.S. anyone..... U.S. against Britain..... Afghanistan against Russia.

A country that fights to the teeth cannot be taken. All these wars were won in this respect.

By your logic, if I disagree with you will automatically makes my argument right

Anyway, I wouldn't judge until I learn more about both side's stories and the people living there. If I find out Ulfric gonna start a holocaust when he won his independent, then by all mean, he shall fall under my assassin's blade.

Then this leads me to ask... Where were these combined forces when the Thalmer attacked?

I dislike him because he only cares for the Nords.
Argonians ftw

We gave up in Vietnam. McArthur had a strategy in place that he was begging the US to allow him to enact, but they recalled him. If he had put his plans in place the war would've been all but over within a few months.

Real history aside, the Thalmar would not just give up on the war. If that is the case they would've been broken at Hammerfell instead of just repulsed. Skyrim would fall just as surely as the Empire would. I don't see what makes Skyrim so special that it would survive a war that would devastate all but the victors.

Long story short, it's pretty much globally implied in my game that Ulfric wants to be king and will kill anyone to get that position.

Ulfric fails to understand the severity of the situation at hand. The Empire is fighting a (for the most part) united Elven front, and if the lands of man divide and fight each other they will fall one by one. Ulfric cannot see what is at stake, and uses his peoples outrage over the banning of Talos and their own stigma against the Elves and all non-Nords to build his own power. If Ulfric won the rebellion Skyrim would be a doomed country, and the years before its conquest would be those of social division and the abuse of all non-Nords who seeked refuge in what was once the Empire's most secure province. The now free country of Skyrim, under High King Ulfric, would be hated and would have no allies when the time to fight the Thalmor comes.

I like the Stormcloaks and I hate the Legion more than anything. I would sell my soul to a Daedra Lord if it meant I could bring down the empire. Imperials are the only things I actually enjoy killing in the game. I have more mercy for a beast and even Dwarven machines. For the Legion, I have no mercy. If I could, I would decorate my home with Legion heads that I killed and then piss on it.

Thalmor DLC ftw.

Hammerfell managed to keep fighting on its own even after the Empire abandoned them. In saying that what's stopping Skyrim and what's left of the Empire from fighting alongside each other against the Aldmeri if they did decide to declare war again ? I'm sure Ulfric also has the mindset of expanding Skyrim's borders and seeing as the Empire would be much more weakened than Skyrim would, since it'd be the Empire that'd take be taking the brunt of another invasion.

Also what's to stop revolts happening in the Dominion ? I don't fully know the extent of relations within the Dominion but aren't the Altmer the ones in control and everyone else below them ?

Although i'm in favour of an Independent Skyrim i can see it from the Imperials point of view as Skyrim were a founding part of the Empire itself and the whole united we stand divided we fall comes into play.

You mean during the Great War? Well, part of them were over in Hammerfell to assist the Redguards in handling Aldmeri attempting to conquer their lands. The other parts were in Cyrodiil fighting off the invading Aldmeri force.

The Aldmeri weren't pushovers though, they've got their own alliance of sorts between factions of Altmer, Bosmer and Khajiits. Eventually, the Aldmeri abandon Hammerfell and mass on the IC. Now, besides just trying to keep the elven forces from pillaging the counties and countryside, they've got a siege of the Imperial City to handle. The Legion troops left in Hammerfell work together with the Redguards to oust the Aldmeri there, but the IC is briefly taken by the Aldmeri. Titus Mede II led the Legion in a push back into the city, they were able to reclaim the Imperial City and defeat the Aldmeri general with heavy casualties.

To end the bloodshed and save the Empire from further suffering, the White-Gold Concordat is signed with unfavorable terms towards the Empire, but bringing peace and bringing a halt to the Aldmeri pillaging the counties.

It has some particularly horrid stipulations though, as you know, the banning of Talos worship among them. Most still kept private shrines to Talos though, and the Empire was lax on enforcement of the ban for a while. After the Markarth incident, which it us strongly suggested to have been masterminded by the Thalmor, the Thalmor gain an excuse to enforce the ban through their own Justicars.

The difference between those conflicts and Skyrim is that the Thalmor's stated goal is the extermination of mankind. Guerrillas can't hide among the general population after the Thalmor butcher them, nor does the Dominion care about the "hearts and minds" of the populace. A better example would be the Eastern Front of World War II, when Hitler's ruthlessness clashed against Stalin's, mincing millions of people between the two.

BarnabyJones is talking like a true stereotypical Nord. Fight! Honour! To the death! We are invincible! War tactics besides fight, fight, fight? Psh! Useful allegiances? Psh! Considering other factors? Psh! It will all be alright if we NEVER STOP FIGHTING AND KILLING!

Don't you just love it when Empire supporters lecture you on the Thalmor but neglect the fact that the Imperials claim the right to own every piece of dirt and person in the world in the name of:

"If you don't let us control everything, bad things happen."

The Legion can svck my left nut. Down with the empire, by any means necessary.

They were also the only country to defeat Tiber's legions and keep their independence from the Empire by their own might. Even morrowind, who had god-rulers on its side, only managed to get integrated with somewhat favorable terms, not full independence.

(Citation needed)

Its funny how all the pro-Imperials seem to think Skyrim is doomed if Ulfric drove them out. What, the Empire isn't doomed? From what I've seen of the Empire so far is just a bunch of arrogant, bloodthirsty thugs arresting people on site for worshipping the one god that Nords can identify with. They're no better than their Thalmor masters, and thats what they are, Masters of the Empire.

The Empire is dying. If Ulfric and his Stormcloaks do win the civil war, at least when the war against the Thalmor comes, and it will come, an Independant Skyrim will fare much better than the Empire because of what the Nords of Skyrim will be fighting for, for honour and a place in Sovengarde. There is no more dangerous soldier than one fighting for an honourable death, and lets face it, Altmer and a Nord going at it one on one is a one sided fight, Altmers cannot even comprehend the passion for a fight a Nord has when the prize is a place in Warriors Paradise.

If the Thalmor weren't a pressing problem then an the Empire transitioning into an alliance between independent provinces would be a okay. But as things stand, they're a problem, and it can't be solved by fighting separate war efforts. It reminds me of Ben Franklin's diagram of the snake representing the colonies during the French and Indian war, separate the colonies would have fallen but together and with the British behind them, they won.

Demolishing the Empire right now is not going to improve the situation Tamriel is in. It's going to weaken all the provinces for a Thalmor takeover or at the least an invasion (which could be what the next games will be based on). I don't see very many logical arguments as to why the provinces are better off divided.

History disagrees. The most successful armies are those with training, discipline and experience.

And this itself is the problem. The race of man cannot fight within itself when a united army under the Altmer wielding powerful magic grows with the intent on destroying everything on Tamriel that is not Mer. There are true villains in Tamriel, and the Imperials, the closest brothers the Nords have, and their Empire are the one hope that remains of the united continent. All men must join, all Khajiit, Orc and Argonian who wish to one day be equal, and all elves who have good in their hearts and love for peace and the prosperity of all races. The Empire once held Tamriel in harmony, in equality. And they must once again if peace is ever to return.