The thing is that if you want to take over somewhere, the best way to do it is to get someone else to do the fighting for you...

So:

The Aldmeri accept a 'peace treaty', which essentially gives them control over the Empire...they have 'advisors' in the country, they are running patrols and security operations to protect 'their interests', and they are no doubt guiding the strategy of the civil war. No need for the Empire to win, because while both the Empire forces and the Stormcloaks are fighting, they are weakening themselves, and all the time the Aldmeri are sitting back either growing elsewhere or strengthening themselves.

Ultimately, this leaves two potential courses of action...The first is that the Aldmeri wait until both factions are worn out, then strike; or, Second, they declare that the Empire is unable to govern, and move in to 'protect' the civilians. Either way, it's a take over, and war.

The whole issue is that civil wars are nasty...why would the Aldmeri want to look like the bad guys, when the Empire and Stormcloaks can do that for them? Remember that the Empire was born out of someone crushing all opposition in the provinces and uniting the country under his banner and beliefs....and that sort of thing carries long lasting memories...the people of central asia still revere the warlords that rode out of the east and united them through blood and steel.

Edit:

I don't think drawing a paralell with Vietnam is particularly accurate, when the US is seen as the aggressor...you youngsters should remember that the free world (some of us) went there to fight against a communist takeover, and any examination of the politics of that will point the finger directly at the USSR and the then People's Republic (I say then, because times, policy and motivations change). I'm pretty sure that there would still be more than a few people from SEA who wish that more of our own people had supported that effort, if they had survived both the war and the takeover afterwards.

The Empire doesn't enforce the ban on Talos, the Thalmor do. It wasn't even an issue until Ulfric's stunt with Markarth. And if you think that Imperials dropped Talos worship when the ban occurred then you haven't played through the Legion side enough to know about the typical Imperial supporter's stance on the matter.

If Skyrim fights the Aldmeri alone then I guess the traditionalist Nords and the Thalmor will both get what they're seeking. The Nords will get a good fight and a one-way ticket to Sovengarde and the Altmer get to unmake Mundus. Turns out they aren't so different after all, I guess everybody wins!

But I have always seen the Empire of Imperials much close to the Roman Empire. They also had the same policies, but look at us today. Most of our government is based on what the Romans perfected, what the Romans built architecturally, what they built government, etc.

The Roman Empire had the same policies, "Assimilate and we'll accept you". Aquaducts weren't created by the Romans, they were created by the Tuskans. But the Romans perfected it. Did you know that the marble statues we have of Grecian design were actually of Roman design? Grecian statues were Bronze statues. Roman statues are marble.

This is the thing though. The Imperial army is quite strong and I get the feeling that they have a strong army as well. Sometimes there is no problem with folding over a better and more established government. The imperials don't seem to have a problem with other races the way Ulfric and the Nords do.

If the Empire took over it would have Skyrim's best interest in it still.

You can see what side I am on.

This is one of the biggest reasons why I have problems with Ulfric's so called cause. The high king idolized him, and the impression I got from various bits of dialogue throughout the game was that he would have followed Ulfric's lead in these matters. There was absolutely no reason to kill him, and indeed, in doing so Ulfric plunged his country into a civil war that could have just as easily been avoided. For what? To fight against the Empire? As pointed out above and by others, Torygg would have followed Ulfric's lead in those regards. Sure, others might have been against it, but being the charismatic bastard that he is I have no doubt Ulfric would have eventually gotten his way. So then we're left with other, less glamorous reasons why he decided to do things this way - and none of them reflect kindly upon him. With reasons ranging from committing regicide simply to put himself in the running for the throne (which is the impression I got), or to being a Thalmor plant inside Skyrim.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

I hate the break the news to you, but there have been far greater empires than Rome. Victorian British Empire and the Persian Empire to name a few.

Unfortunately, due to a powerful (Daedric?) plot device, the Thalmor have been made to be the most powerful and strategic force in the ES universe currently and likely in the forseeable future as well. So they get to profit in the shadows while the two factions have their civil war. Is this Bethesda's way of showing us, "Huh, looks like the Altmer really are superior. Who'da thunk it?" *trollface*

Can someone make a mod where I can have a torture room in my house to torture Legion officers. I'll download it in a second.

Elisif? Balgruuf?

rofl.

Monty Python is great.

Didn't say there weren't greater Empires. Now did I?

That was Korea.

We did however give up on Vietnam on that part you are correct. What that has to do with Skyrim however, I haven't a clue.

Gotta love the Pythons. Man, England has such good humor.

You are right, my mistake on that. Thanks for the correction. It was actually in reply to someone else who was comparing Skyrim to Vietnam.

The Grey Quarter says EVERYTHING. Ulfric is a racist bastard who wants Skyrim for JUST NORDS. Imagine only being able to play Skyrim as a Nord.

i say the empire should abandon skyrim and try to unite with hammerfell and black marsh for one thing those redguards know how to surbibe battles with the thalmor and the argonians? dont i recall a certain lizard army mercilessly beating a deadric army so bad that the markynaz had to force the gates closed? ulfric brought this on his own people when he drew attention to skyrim knowing it would have a bad reaction hes head strong as many have said and should the storm cloaks prevail well that leaves a weak skyrim and weak empire once again cut your loses empire get hammerfell high rock and black marsh together :intergalactic:

Yes, the Stormcloaks' motives are very noble. They simply wish to dive into the fray and liberate themselves and their people from the Thalmor, and thus the ban on Talos worship and the mass slaughters the Altmer commit.

The problem is, of course, that Ulfric is using those motives as scapegoats. The High King would have jumped on board and FOLLOWED Ulfric, essentially making Ulfric the High General. Instead, Ulfric eliminated the largest competition for the throne, and used his charisma to split Skyrim down the middle, so he had a massive support following him. This lead to a bloody civil war that COULD have been avoided easily had Ulfric not killed Torygg.

You must understand the Empires reasons for their actions, too. They're as angry as anyone for the ban on Talos worship, but they're not too quick to anger that they blow up one of their biggest supporters, so they can spur their country into action.

No, it's made quite clear that the Empire was forced into the treaty to SAVE every last non-Altmer on Tamriel from being annihilated when the Imperial Army, and most of the military force in Tamriel, fell. They resorted to the peace treaty, buying them YEARS to recuperate, gather power, and knock the Thalmor to the dirt. This was working perfectly, and the Empire was going to easily accomplish this, then Ulfric opened his trap and the Thalmor had to crack down on Talos worship, and began to actually kill people for performing it.

To make it worse, he launched a brutal civil war, tapping into the resources the Empire had gathered, making the Empire as a whole, and as an extension Skyrim, weaker. Not only that, but most of those dying in the war were Nords, considering nearly every Stormcloak is a Nord, and a large chunk of the Skyrim Imperial Army is Nordic. So, he's slaughtering his people while his own troops are being slaughtered, knocking Skyrim to the brink of collapse, as well as crippling the Empire. Let's not forget, the Empire was one of the last hopes to best the Thalmor, and they may still be. They were close to having enough power to drive the Thalmor out, or kill them, when Ulfric pulled his stunt.

This either makes him an insane, power-hungry, selfish lunatic, or a Thalmor agent. Both of which are likely, considering info found about Ulfric, and how he was tortured by the Thalmor.

I support the Stormcloak soldiers, and their craving for independence. But between the Thalmor, the dragons, and Ulfric as their leader, now isn't the time to rebel.

This is the most reasonable and well explained argument I have read on this matter to date. Thank you and well done. I am not that great of a writer, have a hard time putting words on the screen the way I think them, but this is exactly what I was thinking.

the above post does say it all but seriously empire...get hammerfell and black marsh now!

Oh I know, I have yet to play a pro-imperial, and I know many Imperials see the banning of the Worship of Talos as the Empire's worst move, which is why the Nords are in uproar. Talos was once a Nord who became a god, it'll be like if the west lost the war in afghanistan and the Taliban drew up a peace treaty banning Christianity in western countries, you'd get thousands of Ulfric's in both Britian and the US (not that it would ever happen, you got more chance of real life Dragons fllying over the streets of London giving flowers to the masses than the Taliban winning a war).

But, as long as there are people like 'Ulfric', there will always be followers, Ulfric, as much as I don't like some of his political views, is a smart man. He can see the Empire is dying, and it is dying, it's been dying since the downfall of the Septim dynasty. If the Thalmor were around when Old man Uriel was in charge, the Empire would have wiped them out without a second thought and summerset isle would be a pile of ashes. Using the ban of Talos worship to rile the Nords of Skyrim to rebellion. The White-Gold Concordat makes the Empire look weak. I know they had no choice but to sign it, but do you think Ulfric would have signed it? Of course not. He'd rather die than sign it.

And who says the Nords would be alone in this fight. Ulfric against the Thalmor may get offers of help, the Redguards are also rebelling against the White-Gold Concordat, I can see the Bosmer offering their archery skills against the Thalmor. Weather or not Ulfric, being the pig headed guy he is will accept it or not, maybe if Dovahkiin were to advise him to accept it he may swallow his pride and accept and then I believe the Thalmor would have much to fear.

As much as I want the Empire to tell the Thalmor where to shove their Concordat, not going to happen.

I walked into an inn in Windhelm and the very first thing the inn-keeper said was "Oh look, another Dark Elf. Just what we need." I said "Nope" and walked out the door as she told me to enjoy my stay. I then beat the [censored] out of Rolff outside and now I'm banned in Windhelm.

ulfric would never ask valenwood for help under no circumstance considering the fact that the bosmer are under thalmor rule in the region if skyrim were independant there only hope would be hammerfell and black marsh but considering the state of windhelm he wouldnt ask black marsh

Yep, unfortunately, now that the Justicars are within Skyrim and have a reason to be there, the cat's out of the bag. The Empire isn't going to get the extra time to fully recover like they wanted, and now Skyrim is bloodied by civil war and dragonfire. Not a good situation for humanity.

Assuming for a moment that Ulfric's victory becomes canon, he'll need to follow up on his promise to bring the fight to the Dominion if he plans for Skyrim to survive. If they kick out the Thalmor, then wait for the Thalmor to come to them, they aren't going to garner many allies from the provinces that are currently fighting to hold their borders against the Dominion . All of it hinges on his ability to build alliances with Hamnerfell, High Rock and Cyrodiil, and it may take a Dragonborn to do that. I don't think he can maverick a powerful regime like the Thalmor.

And as underking said above, it's doubtful that he'll establish alliances with the Argonians or the Valenwood resistance, though they may end up furthering the same cause.

Bah, he'd murder those too if he'd think it'd help him become the new high king.