I think that's all that most players are asking for, really.

You don't expect to be playing the same character in the next game (like you do in, e.g. ME) and you don't even expect to be in the same region, so giving players more choices on their quests and during character interaction is not much to ask. Bethesda are slacking in this department, and they know it; open-world is their selling point, so they haven't bothered to strengthen other aspects of the game much.

I do hope the next Bethesda title does put more effort into this aspect of video gaming.

They could have implemented the choice and consequences system with the extra space they have on disc, but for some reason they left it at half full.....

While this would be the likely reason for such it isn't because NPC's through their dialogues confirm you are part of the mage guild the moment you join or that you were at the castle when you did the job you were given from the Dark Brotherhood. So yes it seems people have TV's and "the news" no matter what.

As for your second playing Skyrim without quests is like playing WoW without quests eventually it will feel like a grind and there are areas you are not able to get into if you do not accept quests or break entire quest lines if you go to the wrong place IE bard collage picking up any instrument without the quest.

Hell choosing a class or making a "class" adds much more then Skyrim's current system pick this PERK that has no downside to it at all and be any thing and everything. Some limitations are not bad especially if you have the choice of that limitation pick 3 areas in each set mage/theif/warrior those 9 skills you select you can master the rest you cannot but yet still use them there is a simple choice you have that both benefits your player at the same time hold consequences. Before you bring in "JUST RP YOU OWN CLASS" I said it before relying on "RP" for a balance a entire game is not good it is horrible and should not be put into any game at all. With that said Minecraft has more choices you have 15 levels you gather from mobs(death = half XP another risk/reward feature) you can spend that 15 levels to enchant something you can either enchant 1 item getting a more powerful enchantment spread it across several items getting lesser enchantments on each.

because you're focusing on the quests that don't give you choices and ignoring ones that do. Sorry but its true there are plenty of both


on a side note though, what is better than go get x and kill y? Go sit in x chair for y minutes and chase z butterflies? lol killing and retrieving are what makes a quest a quest. You can just put different spins on it. LOTR for example is technically oh venture into mordor and cast the ring into the fayer. Essentially its retrieving something backwards and killing sauron by destroying it. Same [censored] and thats the most epic quest ever quested

If you mean that 90% of quests give you no choices (other than to do them or not), while another 5% offer some insignificant differences, while the other 5% are actually okay on the choice front, then you're right-- there are plenty of both...

I was anticipating something different because some of their press material made the story engine sounded like it'd be doing this. Mostly though, it's just used for guards to comment on your latest event. And even then, it just loops old comments too, breaking immersion.

To go back to the original question, as players we do have choices and there are consequences to at least some of our actions. The reason that there are not as many choices and consequences as we would like is this is a game that costs around $60. If we were prepared to pay $600 then we could have the game we would really like to play (though I doubt current hardware could cope with such a thing).

Kill/fetch quests aren't the problem. Its the lack of substance behind the reason for the quest,
"get my sword back and I'll give you some training."
If you're capable of increasing my skills why don't you just get it yourself?
"My Mrs wont let me."
....


"Get me 10 fire salts for my forge!"
There's an Alchemist over there with like 6?
"Go get them!"
....

"Alduins back Only the Dragonborn can kill him!"
Why is that?
"Because you can absorb his soul!"
*Kills Alduin - Doesn't absorb soul - Gets killed by snow troll the very next day*
.....

Its inconsistencies that are jarring to the point of nausea at times. Don't get me wrong, the game is fun. Its just really really stupid at times too.

The price of the game is not the reason for there being few choices and consequences. It's a matter of priorities and time. Bethesda prioritises open-world, and it had to meet a marketing deadline.

I think I would understand that if there were fewer quests in general. But they have quite a bit of content - it's just a matter of how they're implemented. It seems to be a design decision to me.

Yah, the content is Hollow.

So if you want open-world and choices and consequences then it will take more effort which means more people and/or longer development time both of which which mean more expensive development which has to be reflected in the price of the game. Bethseda are a business and will have made the decision that sixty bucks is about the maximum they can charge to sell enough units to make the return on the capital invested that they need. So we get a $60 game. If enough people were prepared to pay more we would get more - there ain't, so we don't.

i always laugh when you have to click in your character's response and there's only one option.... you might as well just have a cutscene at that point. Sadly, that's most of the game.

Did you play Morrowind or Daggerfall by any chance? Keep in mind all the following is my own opinion. There are just quite a few people that share it.

You had choice AND consequence in both. You even got to be locked out of quests if you chose to go another path. Skyrim is a step backwards in that regard for sure. Great Houses? Fighters or Thieves Guild? Kill Vivec or don't? Choose who gets advantaged on a cold wintry island infested with werewolves? Choosing who gets to use a colossal brass god made by a race of atheistic mad scientists that caused their entire race to disappear?

Of course it has made many steps forward but that is no excuse for tossing good things out when you already had a fairly successful formula. Out with the old in with the new does not mean throw the good crap out. They should have built on that instead of throwing it out. Take all the good from previous games and add onto them or modify them to become better. In addition to the new stuff you are planning to add. Like horrible journals and quest mechanics. Not to mention faction questlines that feel rushed and incomplete.

I doubt anyone would like Morrowinds journal as it was in Vanilla as an optimal journal but neither would people want Skyrim's Journal if they had a perfect blend of the two. Information + organization = great journal. Morrowind= information + disorganization. Skyrim=organization + lack of information. What would the next logical step be? Keep the quest markers if you want but do not take out half the fun out of the quests for me. I like Journal updates. I like to read them. Gives me more information about the quests I am doing. Radiant AI quest can stay the same as they are an overly simplistic way of indefinitely extending the amount of quests you can do. I would take a simply long, memorable and finish-able product over Radiant Quests with infinite amounts of questing any day.

Sorry for the rudeness but...where the hell were you when i joined?
I always wanted a fishy stick

http://images.uesp.net/c/c4/Fishystick.jpg

It tis a lil late but it is still fresh I assure you!

I don't think the debate should be about time in development. There are simple things that could have been done that would not require tons of development time.

• Not allowing the joining of multiple guilds. If a guard in Solitude can know within minutes that I am the Dragonborn then The Companions should know that I am a member of the thieves guild or Dark Brotherhood. ESPECIALLY when I wear their armor around! In fact I should be attacked by certain individuals when wearing another guilds or factions apparel.
  
• Becoming a werewolf or vampire should have some type of consequences. See all the other major threads for ideas.
  
• Choosing sides of the civil war should do more than change the color of the guards uniforms in certain cities. Like being lockout of certain cities making you have to break into them.
  
• I remember something along the lines of talk about changing a cities economy. Was that true? I've never seen anything like it.
  
• Have bounties spread throughout multiple holds. As said before if guards know what has happened through the land with regards to your adventures then they should also know that you murdered everyone in a particular town or city and you should be attacked on sight.

On an on.

Game is great but it could be so much more.

This

All in all, choice in Daggerfall only came down to the six different endings, which you got to choose near the end. The rest of the game is entirely empty of any meaningsful choices since every other quest and faction content comes from randomized npc's in randomized towns sending you to randomized locations to do randomized tasks. So you had six choices with real consequences in the entire game...seven if you include the option of not doing the main quest at all. Skyrim has more than that.

You want to try to do Morrowind next?

I never played Daggerfall but I heard it had many choices. However it was all randomly generated and so were many of the quests. Which the latter is something it has in common with Skyrim.

For me it all depends on how much you adhere to your role as you play, whatever it may be. I agree there are only so any times you can run the MQ and FQ, but there is so much more to do still. Living in the world is, in itself, a joy to behold.

But I do agree on one thing:

Thief:"You mus be Brynoljfs new prodigy?"
Me:"Uhhh... I am the Guild Master now guy!?"
Thief:"Hope ya don't screw up!?"

Morrowind has choices for sure...I haven't played it that much that I can elaborate, but they are plenty. Just saying that the amount of choice in Daggerfall is highly overstated, compared to later TES games Daggerfall is really lacking in purpose and meaningful choices.

I actually need to go back and play it. I only have about 200 hours of playing it and I never actually finished any of the mainquests other than the Tribunal one. I also played it on console like 2 years ago and loved it. Now I have it for PC and really need to beat it.

It was designed to sell DLC, but thats just my opinion of course.

I totally agree. This is the essence of TES right here. I was never concerned about multiple endings etc Bioware have done this extensively with the Mass Effect series, i love those games but compared to TES or even Skyrim alone the Mass Effect universe can feel very clinical whilst exploring.