I play a Spellsword myself. And it took me quite some time to get use to the system. I started off fairly weak, but out of all my play throughs I like my spellsword the best.

http://www.japanator.com/elephant/ul/14026-620x-4-4304-14026-hypocrisy1jpg-620x.jpg

FTFY

Why do you care if someone else's playstyle is as effective as yours? That's how it should be. They have strengths and weaknesses, not all weaknesses and no strengths like Destruction does right now. You all act like balance has to be done by a razor's edge.

/e

This is also ignoring the fact that higher level Destruction spells effectively screw you out of having a companion that isn't a summon.

Huh? Should be glass cannon? where do you get this idea? Mages can't wear heavy armor? Mages can't use alteration? Mages can't wreck people with bound sword? Why is restoration irrelevant? Mages cant use wards or use heal?

There is no reason for Destro to be doing less dps (to the point of taking an entire magic bar on Master for 1 mob, with 4 others in the room) than bow/2h/1h/conjuration when all of those damage types I just listed can also use all of the other spell schools even more efficiently.

Your turn.

Being overpowered is a choice. Being underpowered means you failed somewhere, either on the players behalf or on the devs behalf.

For example; I've been playing as my dual wielding nord necromancer lately. I can and occasionally do actually use my axes and shouts to do absolutely OBSCENE damage( I killed the bosses for the amulet quest in one salvo, each), but i choose not to, because A: that would be boring, and B: I don't have to. I'm powerful enough that, if I want to, I can do some ridiculous and fun things that vastly expand the games replayability for me. One example of that is limiting myself to only the necromancy part of conjuration, meaning sometimes i have to charge into a crowded and deadly swarm of enemies to get one down so i can re-animate him and use him to tank while I do damage. I COULD just summon an atronach, but i think that would be boring(for this character, at the very least.)

With a mage, however, from what I've heard you have very little choice but to spam-stagger them with impact until they die, or just run away spamming fireballs at them until they die. This seems to be an unfair and boring playstyle to me.

Players should always have the option to become brokenly powerful, if they so choose. It shouldn't necessarily be easy(took a long time to get all the stuff to twink out my combat character), but it should be possible and rewarding, like how it is with fighting classes.

What do you mean there aren't any options? You have the same options in this game that you had in previous games, the only exception being that rather than Destruction being the only school of magic worth using, you now have Conjuration and Illusion that are worth using.

OP is entirely correct! must intelligent post posted on this forum for a long time.

Oh, come on, the morons who keep hating on everyone who wants a balanced game don't understand making logical arguments or actually trying to prove their point, they just insult people and pat each other on the back to make themselves feel like thei're right.

With regards to the guy who said that it would be like having 1 point of damage relative to 1000 damage... You're not so far off...

I'm too lazy to get the actual ratio together, but it's a safe bet that for a high level destruction player vs a high level melee player it's at least 1:10...

Fact is, if you play a mage, your going to get owned by monsters that a melee character could butcher is less than five seconds.

And destruction isn't worth using as Conjuration and Illusion users, since any other style will make your build superior.

isolated. issue.





Explain why Destro should do considerably worse on Master difficulty compared to 2H/Bow/Onehand/Sneak/Conjuration when all of those things I just listed can also use all spell schools more efficiently. I'd like to hear an honest answer.

The sheer point here is not what build is more powerful than what other.

The crux of the issue is that spellmaking should never have been removed.
A hallmark, a defining quality, the very thing that launched the business in the first place.

Why, other than those things I have just mentioned?
Well, take a look at what is left.
Take a look at other games with magic.
Its not hard to find a 20 year old game not in the TES series with better magic, it is not hard to find a contemporary game with better magic.

If you remove your flag you darn well better have something substantial to put in its place.
Skyrim does not have that.

It is a choice I've been trying to get at that. But with the system we here with destruction arguably alteration, they just stay underpowered and have only a few spells to make use of. Its just the absolute minimum.

That is pretty much it if you only go destruction with conjuration basically.

They should always have this option, if the option is there to be overly powerful you do not have a limit to how high you can progress or not progress. With what we have now things stale out to soon in a rather bare bones system.

Well, if you're a power gamer shouldn't you max every skill in the game anyway? I mean, no matter how powerful destruction is or should be, a build that features everything would still be better in the end. Sorry but you're not really making any sense here.

If you can kill everything using two skills, then what matter is it that the third skill you choose is something less significant?

Lack of a variety of spells from the past games.

Water walking
Magic absorb
Open lock
touch spells
weakness spells
poison spells
levitate
mark and recall

The axing of one magic school.
Lack of spell creation
Therefore lack of options.

After using illusion and conjuration, they are effective enough to make a difference. You're just better off using archery than destruction with them regardless. Mages also have defense, they don't have to wear no armor. I'd argue there's alteration...but yeah not a fan of that form of defense though it might work for some players.

I'm talking about around level ~40, and no, you can't max all perks.

Its not about power gaming, try killing 3-4 elite mobs as destro at 40 master. See how fun it is.

It makes perfect sense, and it has nothing to do with power gaming at all. You're just coming up with more false logic to "prove" why the system is fine.

Very true, I'm still curious as to why weakness to magicka poisons made it into the final build but weakness to magicka spells are a no show. And no open lock spells? What gives?

Ummm... :ermm: are you talking to me?

I was referring to the guy who just said that all the people who think destruction needs a buff was utter garbage. I was not saying anything against it being buffed. All my previous posts were on the same side of the argument you're on. Why would i change my thoughts on a dime? :confused:

yeah i was talking to him too, mist quote.

He's saying that the magicka you just spent casting thunderbolt or what have you, is 'practically' wasted.

1 - Destruction's only purpose is to do damage to enemies. This is true.

2 - Conjuration and illusion do damage to enemies indirectly, but also serve as crowd control, and as a meat shield. Also true.

3 - The damage conjuration and illusion can do, in ADDITION to its other rolls, out classes destruction. Anyone who's seen the twins in action knows this is true.

4 - So why use destruction if it doesn't even perform its roll as good as the others.

This isn't saying 'waaah destruction isn't uber', this is people saying, "destruction doesn't have enough power to justify using it in most circumstances."

Again they are just ripped the spine completely out of magic. I see no reason to have done so. They did it because of complaining but the entire magic line has suffered greatly we are now severely limited in our option. From Morrowind to Oblivion it was subtle, from Oblivion they cut the head off magic completely.

The worst part of magic for me, in Skyrim, isn't even the balance/non-scaling destruction.

The whole area feels like its been so.. reduced, and had the heart ripped out of it. No spellmaking, and so many favourite spells gone. You can't even work on raising your int and willpower. Feels like next to no choice compared to what it used to be.

On the other hand, Im loving the stealth build in Skyrim so far.

AGEED :biggrin:
Also everyone of these schools have been stripped down, greatly in terms of what they can offer in terms of content.