This I feel is a low blow after I defended the sick and ill just yesterday on here. :facepalm: If that is the case everybody here is a sad person getting on a PC or a phone to even talk about a video game, right.

Wrong.

This is a place to intelligently discuss ideas and talk about things in your opinion can improve the game for fun, something to do: then you occasionally get insults like this or worse hurled at you because you have an opinion...

How about we get back on topic now...

Im truly sorry but his is just apologetic drivel.
What you are basically saying is that the times they are changing, man, and the flowers have closed.
Well I for one find that unacceptable.
I do not quit advocating what I believe in simply because it is unreasonable. Im a human being

Yes, I am very sure that in years to come gamemakers will realise there is profit to be made in niche markets such as people who like RPG's.
Why wait?
Why not push it forward a little by being myself as hard as I can and try to be heard?

This is TES we are talking about here.
Its.. its like Woodstock or Discworld or Tolkien
It represents things worth fighting for.

So do I.

If they listen a lot of the ideas on here are great, this game series could be even more amazing.

That last little bit priceless. :rofl:

Well said. Very well.

Well these are the best games in the world after all. :tes: :tes: :tes:

Just try and face a dragon in your fancy mage clothes, hurling magica at her.

Dragon looks at you. Shakes Head. Camera zooms out and he eats you alive. End of story for mages!

Edit: too low armor rating or too low health makes the dragon eat you. That's why I am of the opinion that in Skyrim it does not make sense to be 100% mage. It's like a cultural thing.

Are you familiar with the term "Easy to learn, difficult to master."? This is a core mechanic that been around since the beginning.

It wouldn't have killed them to make a system anyone can jump into that still has intricacies for people that really want to delve into it.

Instead we get (ノ?益?)ノ彡┻━┻ and it's cut out.

Don't complain the game is forcing you to spreadsheet your way through it. That was your choice.

/e

On top of all of this, it sounds like several players are happy Destruction is in the gutter like being bitter melee couldn't 1-shot everything previously...

No, its not apologetic and if you knew me in real life you would know one of the most cynical person you ever met. I don't make excuses for Bethesda, im not a fan boy of any game, the best game I ever played was old school Ultima Online back in 1996, but even I can admit that game wasn't perfect. No game will ever be perfect and meet the expectations of the millions of people that play them, never. Just as you admitted yourself, your're human, well human's make the games you play and humans are not perfect.


I have high expectations just like the next guy does, but the bottom line is that I have grown old and my cynical attitude in recent years has made it nigh impossible for me to enjoy most games. In fact, I usually d/l a game and tell myself its going to svck before I even play it. Im cynical like that, the movie industry svcks, the music industry svcks, yada yada yada. But yeah, when it comes to games I just take them for what they are. Even back in the day games use to be simple and those were some of the best games, doom and doom II were simple yet fun, I spent several hundred hours of my life playing those games when I was a kid. Skyrim may not be complex but it sure does bring back a certain nastalgia (alteast for me) for the way games use to be, games can be simple and fun and im 35 years old, been playing since Commodore 64 and a hardcoe gamer at that.

Except nobody is asking for mages to be as "tough" as warriors in combat. But our primary ATTACKING tree is too weak in comparison to the damage of the archery or weapon trees. Saying that it's ok because it's a single player game just clearly shows that you are biased because you don't play mage characters. If it was your weapon of choice that was suffering, I would bet my life you would be on here whining about balance too. So please do us the favor of keeping quiet with your nonsense. Thank you.

And by the way, the argument that you make that mages SHOULD be weaker than warriors is ridiculous. Who would you rather fight: a dude with a sword, or a dude who throws friggen lightning bolts from his fingers? I would say the mage takes the gold. You just don't want the archetype that you choose to play being affected by balance changes, because you happen to play a skill set that remains unaffected by the poor balance in game currently.

And for my final point, just because it is a single player game, does not take away from the fact that I should be able to play whatever "class" I want and not feel gimped to hell. Not everyone wants to play the game simply to beat it; totally breaking the lore by making a guy in heavy armor, who's a master of the sword and every magic tree and weapon tree in the game. That type of play is [censored] and meaningless. Some people actually like to assume a lore based role and you don't see mages running around in heavy armor, with mastery of all weapon trees and all spell trees like a total godlike badass. Thats not fun because it breaks all form of immersion for players who like to PLAY a character, you know in an RPG?

Oh yes, I do that too.
Its part of growing up,
Not everything can beat that one birthday and usually people and events dissapoint.
Which I why I hate surprises. Nothing in the surprise can ever live up to what I secretly want, but there is hope, so, dissapointment.

But this is a TES game.
You know what I thought as a newb just in Morrowind before I even knew Daggerfall?
I thought:
Wow. This is a game made by people who like games. Not just people who like people who buy games.

Why?
The sheer freedom to do what I wanted when I wanted.
I wanted to jump from Seyda Neen to Worlds End? Fine. If I survived the fall.

I wanted to kill Vivec or Crassius?
Ok.

Oblivion was the worst game in the series so far exactly because it failed to deliver on that.
It was a game before it was a world and a playground

Skyrim does many things better, but there simply is no excuse for what has been done to the spell system.

That only happens though, if you have the "Draconis Hugeliensis" disease which, surprisingly, forces you to hug Dragons as soon as you see them.
While being a truly diabolic disease, only few are suffering from it.

This one line sums it up in terms of power. How about the power to control the mind make them turn their sword on themselves. Or how about somebody floating in the sky above you thrashing you with objects. Mages should be varied. This mega thread has been fun you all. Its 5 AM where I am right now so I really must get some sleep... :snoring: :snoring: :snoring:

As a high level tank with Daedric armour the only thing that can destroy me with ease is a mage with fireball or lightning. Mages seem pretty powerful to me. Or are npc mages better than playing a mage yourself?

Correct.
Their spells scale and get more damaging.
Yours do not.

I don't share your views of Morrowind. Morrowind didn't allow the freedom that many games of today offer, even games like Stalker offer a more open world if even through instancing. Morrowind has plenty of invisible walls if you didn't use levitate and it funneled you into places and locations. The game UI wasn't even that great, it was archaic click and drag system that many 1990's RPG's used. Morrowind was great because of the unique enviornment and it was one of the first games of its kind that offered a 3d realistic enviornment that was somewhat open. Other than that, it wasn't a great game. The only people who think Morrowind was great are the people who played it as their first real RPG experience.

LOL Morrowind was the first game ever to offer this type of non linear, open world, rpg experience....At least on such a massive scale. If you did not like Morrowind, it is no wonder you are on these forums posting about this topic the way you are about things you have no clue about.

No, plenty of games offered it before that, even Legend of Zelda was non linear and that game was made in the 80's.

Morrowind was the first game that offered it in more of a photo realistic world.

The NPC mages are actually far more powerful than what you can play yourself.

I have 160 HP on my level 30 Master Difficulty pure mage, and enemy mages 2 shot me with what appears to be a firebolt or ice spike spell, and 1 shot me if they cast a fireball or ice storm equivalent. Obviously their spells just do a lot more damage than what a player can cast. My fireballs don't do 160+ damage, I wish...



Also Morrowind was a deeply flawed game, the reason why its so beloved isn't because it was perfect, but because it was groundbreaking in a lot of respects. Especially the creation set was an absolute revelation to a lot of people who wanted to break into modding, but didn't have the ability to create entire games and levels from scratch, Morrowind offered seemless plugins, making it possible to mod as much or as little as you wanted and easily share your creations with the world - that was huge! Also Morrowind came out at a time where first person RPG was still a whole new thing. There was System Shock 2 and then Deus Ex, but both of those games were still confined to relatively small levels, Morrowind blended that style of gameplay with a wide open world.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Elderscrolls has a lot of its roots in the Ultima Series, Ultima Underworld in particular, and when Morrowind came out Ultima Online was still in full swing. When people saw Morrowind which was so similar it simply drove home this amazing realization of how good game worlds could look one day. Any MMO you see today models their world building techniques on morrowind, they didn't do that before...

Zelda was no where even close to the scale of Morrwind. Thats like comparing Mario Brothers to Morrwind. It simply was never done like Morrowind before it's existence.

Im sorry?
Morrowind had zero invisble walls. Zero. Except around the world as a whole, being the limit you could swim in the ocean.

I dont understand about freedom. There are no NPC's you cannot do with as you please in Morrowind (kill) and there is literally only one NPC in the entire game you need to keep alive in order to do the main quest. (Yagrum)
You can still kill him though.

You can permanently de-aggro hostile npc's with a calm spell and then getting their disposition to 100

Morowind also certainly was not my first RPG. I long for games like Eye Of The Beholder or Menzoberanzan.

'3d realistic envoronment that was somewhat open?' What? Generation thing I assume.
I know of no other game that ever let you jump from one end of the map to another with a single scroll.

Freedom games offer today..what?
Like pseudo choices? 'Oh Doesnt matter if you say yes or no, if you even can, result is the same'

DIdnt like a quest in Morrowind? Kill the quest giver. Journal goes: so-and so met an unfortunate end. Thatll teach em Im not a go-to guy.

What? the UI? You mean the thing superior to that of the one in Oblivion and Skyrim due to ease of use?
Like, it wasnt a whole list to scroll down and there wasnt a gimmick zoom either, just the icons nicely displayed?
Yes, its so hard to fill a page with relevant information, we need an alphabetic list that takes ages to scroll.
You mean relevant information such as what factions you had what reputation with wasnt hidden from the player?
Wow big improvement.

Id like to visit the world you live in. It seems fresh. What are the spatial/ temporal/ aurbical coordinates?

Fan boys cannot possibly defend Morrowind, it was one of the easiest games I have ever played. You could max destruction simply by casting spells out into the sea and then go buy better spells after robbing the local farmers, then you could literally kill everything in the game without getting hit or taking damage. The game was ridiculously easy to the point where I had to restrain myself from using half the skills in the game just to make it challenging.

well, first off I'd like to say, for the record, that I did in fact abandon my mage char in skyrim to take up a thief char (though to be honest it was largely due to her hideous forehead wrinkles (she was a breton), will probably try again once more appearance mods are released).

be that as it may, I didn't find magic to be that weak at all, can take out mobs fairly effectively, and my mage did rather better than my theif in a crisis. If a snowbear leaps out at my theif, she dies, whereas my mage can just blast off some fireballs. Alchemy I found to be one of the best skills for a mage, if all you do is alchemy and destruction, you have a viable char (though difficult), can be time consuming, and it requires you to stock up on a lot of potions before a fight (various enhancements and mana restoration ones, I've made a few that resist fire damage and restore mana, are handy when fighting dragons), at high levels alchemy can offer you that same sort of invincibility a warrior in fully upgraded daedric can have.

few problems I did face:
1. can be sort of a gap in levelling, due to the way the perks are set up, so that the mobs around you are getting extremely powerful, but you don't have the skill in destruction high enough to get the 50% less mana perk, which means all your high level perks are more or less useless, so you're left kiting enemies and using basic spells until your skill goes up.
2. happens a lot with #1, is running out of mana. Simple thing is, a warrior can keep swinging his sword, an archer can keep shooting arrows, but if a mage runs out of mana, they're completely screwed (never travel without a companion!), the risk of playing a pure mage, is that you really have no viable fallback weapon.
3. some spells seem rather difficult to use in a fight, ward spells for example, what good is a ward from one direction when i've got draugr trying to circle around me? more effective to charge up an extra fireball.

Thats because people like yourself who play games to beat them will never fully understand the concept behind playing an RPG. You play the game to break it and beat it. We play the game to enjoy the world and the lore. Any game can be broken if thats your intention, it's computer code. That's not why I play RPG's. Not to mention we are talking the very first of it's kind, give Bethesda a break. Today, however, there is no excuse. The magic system in Skyrim is simply laziness.

Amen

People seem to constantly compare Mage damage to melee characters.

The complaints aren't "I wan't to do as much damage as a warrior/assassin"

The complaints are stating that destruction magic is weak, the higher you level up, the less damage you're doing compared to how strong the opponents are. No one cares that a fireball can do x amount of damage, while 2 swords do a Y amount higher.

The main complaint is, a Mage cannot resort to magic being his prime damage output in order to defeat his enemies. Being forced into using swords/bows is taking away the very role playing element out of TES games.

I honestly don't care if a melee character can enchant/blacksmith/alchemy his way into doing a ridiculous amount of damage. This isn't a multiplayer game, another characters damage output has no effect on me, I'm not competing with other players.

I do care however, that farther into the game, I cannot continue relying on pure magic to defeat my opponents. Instead, I have to incorporate physical weapons just to survive.


This may not be a big issue on normal, but I'm playing on Master mode, and it definitely destroys immersion, when my Archmage, the master of magic, has to run around hacking and slashing his enemies with a sword.