Nono you misunderstand.
Its when in context to previous games you can understand why mages are [annoyed]
As just about everything that made them a mage has been removed unto the point other games have better magic.

Ok, let's compare it to something similar. How about a 15 year old, real time, open world rpg designed by the same company? Anyone?

Morrowind?

What Skyrim does better is legion. That much may be obvious.
Loss of spellmaking balances it? Hell no. Nothing does.
It is simply unforgivable, especially when you compare what is left in its place.
A stump.
An ugly stump in my beautiful garden to remind me of what was taken from me.

I read the OP. I described it perfectly. :toughninja:

After I read the title the OP lost all his credibility. Every game needs balance unless you're stupid. And yes, mages svck end game and need to be patched or modded asap.

Heres the problem. Tell little jimmy to play Destro w/out exploiting and power leveling enchanting. It has an over-reliance on 1 specific skill, and 1 specific enchant stacking from that school - or its really crap on Master.

Conjuration, illusion, bow, and melee do not share this over-reliance on stacking 1 stat from 1 skill for required play on Master.

It isn't balanced, other schools are far superior.

Yes master
:bow:

The Scripture of the Word, First:

'All language is based on meat. Do not let the sophists fool you.'

Second:

'The third walking path explores hysteria without fear. The efforts of madmen are a society of itself, but only if they are written. The wise may substitute one law for another, even into incoherence, and still say he is working within a method. This is true of speech and extends to all scripture.'

Third:

'Do not go to the realm of apology for absolution. Beyond articulation, there is no fault. The Adjacent Place, where the Grabbers live, is the illusion of the vocal or the middle realms of thought, by which I mean the constructed. This is how I stole the certainty of the Chancellor of Exactitude, perfect to look upon from every angle. When you come out of the vocal, you can never be certain.'

Fourth:

'The truest body of work is made up of silence: as in the silence that results from no reference. By the word I mean the dead.'

Fifth:

'The first meaning is always hidden.'

Sixth:

'The realm of apology is perfection and impossible to attack. Thus, the wise avoid it. Trinity in unity is the world and word of action: the third walking path.'

Seventh:

'The sage who suppresses his best aphorism: cut off his hands, for he is a thief.'

Eighth:

'The clothes of the broken map are worn only by fools and heretics. The map is an exit for laziness. It is the dusty tongue, which is to say the given chart that most take as a story that is complete. No word is true until it is eaten.'

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.

Not that it matters to me because I have the pc version and just use the mods that I like but -



And then -



Seems like you contradicted yourself there. First you say that the game is meant to be played as YOU want to play it which I totally agree with, then you suggest that you need to play a certain way in order to be effective while exaggerating your "examples". I personally haven't seen anyone that wanted to make destruction their focus say that they ONLY wanted to level destruction. They will use other schools of magic as necessary. Those players only want destruction to actually BE their weapon instead of having to rely on something like conjurations to boost their damage. You like many others don't even know what is being asked.

I totally agree with the fact that you should be able to play this game in any way that you want to play it but CAN you do that currently? You should be able to be whatever the hell you want be and still be viable in the process without resorting to abusing exploits. Alchemy/smithing and enchanting should be extras that can make you overpowered (NOT a necessity) should you chose to pursue it but those routes should have some difficulty as a price to make you feel that you earned it. I've said it before - I'll say it again. I think it would be a good idea to include the option to specialize in one skill should you choose to. Specializing in something will make you a bit weak in most other things but your ability in that specialization should be unparalleled and well worth it for the sacrifice. In this way you can actually BE a destruction specialist or conjurer, one-handed, shield, or what have you.

Come on mate, you know this. 15 years. 15...



I know, i hear ya.

1st of all it's called specialising, you could in oblivion why don't you go play it it's a great game, 2nd of all yes you can go through the game only using the skills i mentioned and plow enemies but summoning spacificly necromancy is horrible 3rd of all this isnt cod were every one has to use the same overpowered gun we should be able to use what ever class we wan't theres only ONE offencive skill in the mage playstyle while warrior had 2 and rouge has 2 (I count one hand and archery) so why not have summong also have the ability to be a goto offencive skill ( i dont count bound weapons because there still warrior skills in the end...) look at diablo summoning pets in that game was done perfect and you could use offencive magic or use your pets, your post is fail yes the necessity of forcing us to use certain skills is flawed it's ROLEPLAY not every one use the same skills and spells....

Double post

:bowdown:

This is called specialization and play-style, and infact Conjurers/Necros can get away with focusing only on conjuration in Skyrim = because its a very powerful school. Unlike Destro.


Infact this example Conjuration character is better off taking bow for support than destruction, because not only will destruction lower his DPS, but it will keep him low on magicka or force him to power level enchanting and stack +destro in order to have any fun on Master.

I somewhat agree like conjurers it is possible but no necros are not possible go try it dude its bad, completely unbalanced they put all there time in play testing atros and not zombies...

What is the Ninth?

I never claimed that you edited my post, and I'm not about to hold your hand with an elaboration.

The OP is honestly suggesting I have to play 1 specific build to make destruction viable in TES of all games? When conjurers, illusionsts, bows, 2h, assassins don't even have to?

Not even dragon age 2 mage talents forced me do that...... :banghead:

No, exactly the opposite in fact.
The OP is lamenting being pigeonholed into a singular playstyle, a very valid complaint.
Where is 'No, go away"?
Where is 'well Il kill you and thus end the quest'

Disneyfied.
(May I coin that phrase? Skyrim is disneyfied.)

Show me who says this? Betcha can't. Anyways, why shouldn't they? You can't imagine an armor spell cast by a master that is so strong it repels weapons??? What a lack of imagination...

I will dip in.

I agree with everything you said. A lot of the people here seem to forget that you ain't saying its perfect, but instead saying that the arguments for changing it is. This I agree with.

I also to an extend even agree that removing spellmaking was a good idea (although I miss it badly!). What was a terrible idea tho, was to NOT give an enchantment, or ANY way of increasing your dmg on spells. There is the perks yes, but honestly, in a smith get improve his axe, why can't I enchant my items make my magic stronger? In any event tho, you do have Alchemy, which can give you some pretty mad potions to make up for it, but I still think an enchant to increase magical dmg down should have been added. That is all it would take to "balance it", to use a word we can all understand.

So you basically are saying: yes, its ok to remove everything that was good about it but please let us have some cookie crumbles.

Im sorry but this will not do for me.
You do not go from best magic system ever devised to on par and unimpressive compared to anything else out there
Like from a 5 star to a sleazy motel.
This is not ok.

Magic in Skyrim is completely generic, apart from balancing issues.
In a TES game this is unacceptable.

I think maybe the way that spellcasting is looked at is being changed. Honestly, after reading the gripes on Destruction as a specific school, I can honestly say that 90 of the magic is broken in Skyrim threads mean Destruction is broken. This seems to be a common farce. One broken skill is not a totally broken side of the game, it means that, that side of the game is not meant to be played on its own. Does that svck? Yes it does. The developers probably made a conscious decision somewhere along the line that they didnt want destruction mages playing a pure destruction build, they wanted people to be using Restoration to shield themselves (albeit this is useless with in-combat magicka recover mechanics) or Conjuration, Illusion for support.

I think the problem is that the mages of the group see Destruction the way melee characters see your two handed warrior. They want destruction to be a frontline infantry ability. They want destruction mages to be able to go out, with nothing but destruction spells and be successful and Bethesda's devs sat down and went "We dont want it that way". I wouldnt say destruction is broken, I am saying that single skill domination is dead. Two handed warriors are probably relying on enchantment abuse, Blacksmithing and alchemy abuse to get their magic defenses upo, or just building a huge HP pool. From reading the OPs post, im convinced that simply Magic in SKyrim is just more complex then your other two classes and you are meant to be mixing and dabbling in the other trees.

I am not saying this was a good decision, its hardly a game ending decision for me but I am sure there will be some who just cant play like they used to. Adapt or die I guess.

The funny apart about this hypothesis is that I am suggesting the game is becoming more complex by forcing you to use an array of spells instead of one or two damning ones, and everyone says the game is being dumbed down.....

So then are people saying all builds should be equally effective? Because that just doesn't make sense.



I guess I just need to go and play a magic-oriented character. I can tell you this: Even a Conjurer is going to need to extensively use spells outside of Conjuration. Others have agreed with that. And I have played Oblivion, and used Magic effectively, but I did so by using multiple schools - Conjuration, Restoration, Alteration and Destruction most often. Illusion and Mysticism less so, but still thrown into the mix. There's simply no way I could have used Conjuration and just not bother with Alteration to protect myself and Restoration to heal myself.

To the one poster who's complaining he can't tank with only magic skills - yeah, I've never played WoW and have no desire too, but I find the term "tank" much more convenient than typing "toe-to-toe warrior with heavy armor and weapons" repeatedly - yeah, if you wanna tank build a character with skills that are meant for tanking. That just isn't what Destruction magic was meant to do, and it makes no sense to say "I want to tank but I'm pissed that you can't tank effectively with any and all skill combinations."

The thing is, illusion, bow, sneak, or conjuration can be used as main skills - single skill domination is NOT dead and no need for the other magic schools, only passive support skills/perks.
And even if these characters did want to choose another dps option, Destro over the rest would be only gimping them.

Destro suffers from an over-reliance not seen in any other skill. This is mostly brought on by very low dps and mpd on Master.

Well you're no fun, I left it wide open and you did nothin, I am disappoint.