I can't tell if you're serious. "Breaking The Seige Of Kvatch" was the fourth quest in Oblivion's main quest line.

The gauntlet starts even before that. If you arrive at the South Gate, you're refused entry, and sent to the North Gate, where you're treated to the shakedown by the guard. This assures that you're entering by the right gate, so you're forced to do the whole gauntlet.

Yep. I find that encounter so annoying that I sometimes devise ways to disrupt it, like picking up a couple of wolves and leading them there, to chase Hirtel. Sometimes you can get him to run away, and thus avoid talking to him at all.

I've done the same thing with Glarthir. If you work at it, you can lead him out the gate, and get him mixed up with some bandits.

It becomes a kind of mini-game, trying to thwart the scripted Oblivion encounters. Unfortunately, they got smarter when they made Skyrim, and made their forced encounters more, uh, forced.

Then why is "Breaking the Siege of Kvatch" labeled MS (for Misc) instead of MQ (Main Quest)?

If it were truly MQ, then you couldn't start it until after the Amulet got to Jauffre.

ANSWER: Because it isn't a Main Quest.

It's true that you can do it before MQ02, but it must be completed before you can complete MQ03, so it is a prerequisite for the Main Quest. Martin will refuse to accompany you until the Kvatch Oblivion Gate is closed.

If I recall correctly, you have to close the Very First Oht-Gate You Encounter, and extricate the survivors in the Chapel of Akatosh. That part is required for the MQ. To take back the rest of the city, I think that is what is being talked about.

I think you are right.

With the shooting randomly to different parts of the map where Stormcloaks already have convenient camps then doing some funny business to make an entire hold fall, it felt a lot like a low-budget counter-insurgency simulator. No sense of a 'civil war' at all. I want pitched battles, dammit, even small ones. I want to take forts; rat out traitors; chase a rout, and all that jazz. The civil war was a major part of the story. It was all just criminally rushed.

Well, no, I looked up the specific quests, and the gate quest is technically "miscellaneous."

"Breaking the Siege of Kvatch" is MS48 -- technically a "miscellaneous" quest, but mandatory to complete the Main Quest.

"The Battle for Castle Kvatch" is MS49, and is not required.

Neither quest is technically part of the Main Quest; all of those quest stages are labelled MQxx.

I was just looking through my old Prima Guide for Oblivion.

It classes the Siege of Kvatch as part of the main quest.

Once you have completed that quest - there is the optional quest 'The battle for castle Kvatch' where you look for the count. (This quest is listed under optional side quests - Oblivion has lots of good hand made quests.)

As usual, you are making perfect sense.

For me it's just difficult to role-play it.

If you are playing a Nord or an Imperial, you can make it work. Other races just have little reason to get involved.

But even if you get involved your character goes from being this powerful independent person to suddenly taking orders and doing things for someone else. That's a complete flip on how your character operated otherwise. (YES, because Bethesda has no idea what a leader is becoming a leader of any faction in the game does make you a glorified gopher for the group, but at least you are still called the leader in that situation.)

Let me ask it this way:

Do you have to turn in the quest to the Guard Captain to complete ANY part of the Main Quest?

Answer: No. Once the Gate is closed, you can go into the Chapel, speak to Marten, and return him to Jauffre without ever talking to the Captain again. EVER! I actually did this most of the time.

Even the later quest that has you gathering an army to protect Bruma while you get the Great Gate Stone has it listed as a Misc. objective. To get Kvatch's help, you must complete MS49, Battle for the Castle of Kvatch. Does this little fact mean that MS49 is part of the MQ?

Besides, Kvatch only sends a Generic Guardsman/guardswoman or 2. SOme of the other cities actually send an unkillable member of the guard. that's a LOT of work for very little reward, you know.

I would say take your own side and take the crown for yourself. You are a Contessa afterall