I actually agree that the main quests does limit you to some extent (not a bad thing imo), but there is lots of rpgs that have set main protagonist and story like the final fantasy series or mass effect.

This all seems rather pedantic and pointless to be fair,

I can't think of any game where you can do anything and the game supports it.

I mostly have a bone to pick with the 'unique' weapons in Skyrim vs. Fallout New Vegas, but this is more of a Bethesda thing than Skyrim, as they shafted that region again in FO3. In Skyrim, they put a little bit more effort to make them 'unique' but it's still nothing compared to FO:NV's unique arsenal of relics and destruction.

You mean, the fact that you're a courier and that you delivered a platinum chip? I fail to see how that dictates your background in the slightest. Give me some evidence on this.

It's not like Fallout 3, where the game tells you that you grew up in a Vault, you lived in it for 19 years, Amata was your best friend, Butch was the bully, Brotch was your teacher, James was your father, Old Lady Palmer was that one nice lady who gave you presents....This can go on forever. If that isn't dictation of a story line, I don't know what is. Fallout New Vegas blows Fallout 3 out of the water (in almost every way in my book) in terms of access to write a back-story. The only thing that's forced into it is the fact that your profession, at least for the last few years, is to be a delivery man, and one of those deliveries destroyed a large, thriving settlement. That's all. And that you live in the west, and you've traveled it. There's infinite amounts of room for you to write a backstory.

How so, you are either a Hero or a Villain.

But this isn't comparing FO3 to anything. Besides the fact is that you didn't just take a job from the Mojave Express, you're a courier which means you work for them. So yes in a sense it dictates your past.

I can understand your argument and it is a valid one, but I further point out that you can change the DM/GMs mind or influence it some how to create the desired effect. Not to mention their is no script, your character is essential you.

Well then don't call it an RPG, Fallout New Vegas, FO3 and Skyrim are all open world sandbox games. They give you options to how one story plays out, ONE story; now there is nothing wrong with that they just shouldn't call it an RPG. Or at least a TRUE RPG

What about being neutral? Lawful evil? Make some good choices and some bad ones? What about not even the "nicest" faction is not filled with white knights? What about the fact that when you're choosing a faction, you're now choosing to be a hero; you're choosing the lightest shade of gray. I think you're mixing New Vegas up with Fallout 3. The fact that your courier works for the Mojave express does not even fill a fraction of the years of backstory that you can fill up. Rather, it just gives you a valid reason to be in the situation that you're in.

Either way if you complete the game for any faction you are either a Hero or a Villain. But it still creates a back story, at least Skyrim allowed any back story you wanted prior to the events.

I still disagree with that statement, but there's no use debating in circles about that, because it seems as if we don't agree in the slightest.

Creates what backstory? Don't overthink the fact that just because you're a "courier", you're being robbed of the opportunity to write a backstory.

Why do tabletop games have to have a monopoly over the term? The distinction is one is a tabletop RPG, and one is a video game RPG. Or pen and paper vs. computer. They are not the same genre. They aren't even two different genres. They are two different mediums. Both are valid.

An open sandbox tells one story? An open sandbox, by definition, would offer many different stories. New Vegas alone has tons of different paths you can take. Your telling me that if I play as a loyal NCR soldier, it will be the exact same story as if I played as a legionnaire in Caesar's army? No way.

And you can't call every video game RPG an "open sandbox game". Tell me, what would you call Chrono Trigger? Fallout 1? Earthbound? Super Mario RPG? Those games are RPGs, have always been known as RPGs. But it's just a silly genre name. People use them to organize stuff into groups. But things are not so simple; nothing really fits in its genre perfectly; the things within the genre are not all the same. You shouldn't get too worked up about it.

I will also say that fonv is considered a campaign. the actual system fallout uses is very akin to actual table top but the actual game u are interacting with is just like interacting with a set up campaign in tabletop. Fonv is just a chapter, and just like in tabletop when u are running a campaign set in ustalav chasing after the whispering way for the sake of the story/campaign a dm would limit where they would go lr at least set up a road block to direct the charecters back to the campaign.

Also in fonv, if ur charecter did wanna be a cook for one of the jead familys....he actually can lol. Survival dictates the cooking skills and the qhite gloves will let u cook a meal for them

"New vegas FORCES you to be a courier from the west who blew up a place! IT'S NOT AN RPG!"

"Skyrim forces you to be a prisoner who was caught in an ambush and is forced to be the heroic dragonborn who kills alduin! What a great RPG!"

Not as firmly as Fallout 3 did. Where did the Courier grow up? Who was his/her parents? What did he/she do before becoming the Courier?

Fallout: New Vegas simply just said, 'You're some guy/gal who happened to be a Courier, and some [censored] named Benny shot you. Oh, and there are people vying for power in the Mojave. If you wanted, you can go join a side, even that obviously evil, Roman-esque side.'

Fallout 3 pretty much decided your past for you, and built the whole main quest on you finding a man you probably didn't really care much about at all. Oh, and the game [censored]es at you at the end by calling you an [censored] for not being the white knight it wants you to be.

Skyrim didn't decide your past. You can pretend you're not the Dragonborn by simply not going to kill that first dragon and absorbing its soul. You can literally make up whatever you are and the reason for why you're in Skyrim. The game's saying 'You're some halpless guy/gal who miracuiously survived your own execution and dragon attack. Be on your way.'

Fallout 1 is linear but still has RPG elements, just like New Vegas and Skyrim. Except those two games are not true RPGs, but they still have RPG elements. They are more along the lines of an open world sandbox game with RPG elements thrown in.

Maybe I'm biased because of my past tabletop playing experience, and I understand what you mean that there are many stories to live, see and hear within New Vegas. My criticism is the some of the limitations.

For example me and my friends have tabletop RPed in a post-nuclear setting, we were a band of people contracted to investigate an old military facility. But that is it, the only thing the game dictated was that we had been contracted to do something. Our pasts, our characters, our future was left undecided. I would be more satisfied if you could 'fail' the Main quest in New Vegas and watch the rival faction win.

I can agree with you here, and this will settle some of my criticism

Did I ever say Skyrim was great? If you took the time to read my previous comments I criticize it for the same reasons I criticized New Vegas. Even my comment

"At least Skyrim allowed any back story prior to the events"

That comment is critical of Skyrim, "At least SKYRIM" I'm saying at least a game which falls short of New Vegas did something better that it.

Saying that being a courier limited your chances of backstory and took out of the RPG aspect is like saying "just because you're caught at the Skyrim border and sent to jail, they threw away your chances at a backstory! Who knew!"

I think that the role of courier was to give the character an actual valid reason to be there at that time. And to fuel the story, as the primary villain that you're trying to find is also a courier, which connects the story a bit more.

I will agree table top is superior, hell I dm and love doing it. BUT I believe tabletop is the ultimate standard. Its like ordering a burger at a fancy restraunt. It will have the best ingredients, the options for what u want on it, how u want it cooked, etc etc. but u go to mcdonalds and order a burger and u wont have nearly any of the options in how u want jr burger like the fancy restraunt BUT the mcdonalds burger is still a burger just like the burger from the fancy restraunt is still a burger.

I can see your point of view and I understand it, it is a minor thing. But this is how I view it.

It's your free day, you don't have work/school or anything planned just what you want to do.

But not quite your parent/roommate/spouse just told you to mow the lawn. A simple chore taking an hour at the most, but now you have to fit that in your day. Sure it's only an hour but it is something you have to plan/work around.

To me this is what the job of being the courier was, a chore that you had to fit into your backstory.

Tabletop is amazing, but it is damn hard to find a good group. Lost my gaming group after the local shop shut down and we lost touch. I get what your saying, tabletop being superior as it is true freedom (Well as much freedom as your wallet and schedule has). I understand that the Fallout series (certain titles excluded) has great RPG elements. But I will never consider them true RPGs. To further your Burger anology, once you have that fancy burger, the McDonalds one may keep you from starving but in the end isn't as satisfying.

Yeah I get you.

I suppose that forces a *very small* bit of your backstory to be written for you, although it's an interesting obstacle to write around, because you can design your backstory to align with it. Perhaps the courier was also a frumentarius who traveled as a courier, similar to Ulysses? Who knows?

Off the top of my head: You're currently living in the area (unless you're commuting from the NCR or somesuch to take local courier jobs for petty cash, that is). You have no significant history with any of the major NPCs. You have no reputation (story reputation; not the in-game stat) with and are not a member of any of the major or minor factions. You've never been to the Strip. I'm sure there's stuff I'm forgetting, but those are the major ones. I'm also not counting stuff like "you're an inexperienced character", as that's entirely a gameplay consideration.

Just from the main quest, your options are you can be an unremarkable and effectively unaffiliated courier who took the wrong job and got shot in the head. Throw in Lonesome Road and your entire history is effectively given to you verbatim. At that point, you may as well be playing Halo for all the control you have over your own character.

As an aside: Part of the reason I get frustrated with NV's character dictation is I had a very well-developed character who worked within the "You're an unremarkable courier whose last job went wrong" framework. Then I started LR and was told that my entire backstory was wrong and I was some other dude. Sorta killed any enthusiasm I had for RPing in NV. Skyrim, for all its faults, never did that.

Amnesia perhaps?

I do believe the developers have said the Courior doesn't have amnesia.

It is amazing and its very hard to find a group. Im in the dirty south and the only way to do it was for me to dm and find my group thru random eople.
I would still have to disagree with ya in fallout not being a true rpg though. The rules fallout has if taken out of a game would literally be great rules for a tabletop game with really no conversions. The games THEMSELVES shouldnt be viewed compared to the whole tabletop shibang but more like already written campaign modules that eople will buy for their table top game. The campaign modules usually dont stretch well to incorporate the charecters deviating off the road to much and its story or focus of the story is already set in motion. The charecters/dm can change things that they so desire but inbthat sense so can layers in fonv with the use of mods.
So u cant compare a fallout game with the whole shibang of tabletop, its more like comparing fonv to an already written campaign module someone bought for tabletop

There's no doubt that after you get shot in the head, your mind is going to be fuzzy. It didn't shave the side of the face, it hit him right in the forehead. Obviously it must've caused strain or brain damage of some sort.

That's how I got my main character around the whole LR debacle (which cheeses me off something fierce; amnesia is almost as bad a story hook as "Oh! It was all just a dream!"), but it wouldn't explain why nobody else recognizes you. The securitrons at the Strip recognize you after the first time you gain entrance; if you'd been there prior to the beginning of the game, they'd know you. Benny has a bunch of dialogue that indicates that neither himself nor the Chairmen knew squat about you prior to you taking the Platinum Chip delivery job. With high NCR rep you get the "If you were enlisted you'd be halfway to general by now" comment from random grunts, and at least one NCR-related quest you get because you're not officially affiliated with them (and I'm pretty sure there's at least two more).

The Courier doesn't know he/she blew up the Divide. Even without amnesia in the question. He/she simply delivered a package, left, and the Divide went up in smoke as a result.