I'm referring to things like scrolls and potions that typically use the same graphic for each and you have to look at the item name.

That and when I'm switching weapons, if I have three enchanted Ebony Bows in my bags all with different effects, I kinda like to know which one I'm grabbing when the things all look the same.

Like I said. No. I'm not psychic. If I wanted to play real time 100% of the time I'd play a RTS. Which I svck at, and hate, because of the real time part.

EDIT: I personally don't give a crap about the books. It's a real time inventory I'm against. I read the book if it's interesting and makes sense. Some of them don't for me. Meh.

[censored] people! Verification, June issue of Gameinformer, page 54, 3rd paragraph in informative text, "Books appear as three-dimensonal objects that you open to read."

Hmmm well that half-confirms it for me.

I think passing during reading is great. The OP has a point with the page flip time, but the books are so short anyway that it's not gonna get annoying.

I would take it further and say that the inventory and map (but not the spell list) should be real-time. It never made sense that I could chug three potions, poison my weapon, and completely change my armor instantly in the middle of a battle. If they're making battles more brutal etc, then they should force you to bind the important stuff to hotkeys, and only make those hotkeys instantly usable.

So where are people getting this real time stuff? All items appear as three-dimensional objects in the inventory.

The problem I find is that most folks sit on one side or the other, lobbing demands and concepts across the wall for the other to shoot down.


Too few folks are willing to honestly listen to the ideas of the other side, or present them in a way that is anything less than condescending. Even my last post, having posted it, feels a bit condescending now. It is my -hope- that Gizmo will understand that I was challenging his logic, and not demeaning his feelings one way or the other. That was not at all my intention. I often challenge the logic and rationalizations of people who think differently than me, because I like to see how they defend it. However, I do worry now that perhaps my frustration with this and similar arguments has made me sound a bit more confrontational than I was meaning to.

It's difficult, however, to find middle ground. I tend to stand towards the middle... but I am most definitely of the mind that there needs to be -more- realism in these games. The reason that RPG's are so convoluted, with so many stats and systems, is because they were ALWAYS attempting to establish a modicum of realism... even back in the PnP days. Everything was formulaic and well-played out... because the technology didn't exist to make games that really PUT you in the shoes of a warrior of Nirn, or a soldier of the Imperial Army... or any such thing.

The technology -does- exist, now, to at least present a plausible amount of realism... and yet we cling to these old concepts desperately, because they're all we've ever known.

It reminds me of people fighting a war for so long, they don't remember why they're fighting. They don't even necessarily know who the enemy is anymore.

On the one hand, you have people who would take realism FAR too far, and destroy any semblance of 'GAME' about the thing. And on the other hand you have people who see any attempt to break away from traditional mechanics as being an assault on the RPG genre.

In the middle... is everyone who falls between those ends of the spectrum. And that's just the spectrum of realism vs. game mechanics! There are hundreds upon hundreds of other 'spectrums' upon which folks are debating and arguing about this game!


It is a complicated dynamic, to say the least.



There were a few speculations earlier in the thread which led to people speculating about real-time menus and book-reading and such. This sparked a debate on the issue, which is likely what you are seeing now.

You are implying that there is a bag. (granted, I mention one; but it does not exist, or at least its not shown to exist in the game ~is it?)

IMO realism does not need to affect an in-game inventory (other than perhaps a realistic limit to what one can carry).

:foodndrink:

I see it, but I honestly don't acknowledge that as a valid point in a game's inventory access. Its nothing against you.. I understand that you are describing really reaching in to a [virtual] bag and fishing an item out of it (ostensibly past a lot of other virtual items), and that it would take time and is realistic. :shrug:
I don't agree that it should hinder or be of any concern to the player, or have any tangible effect in the game at all. :shrug:

That was for those players that feel that they have to have it.

IMO there should be no delay, because their should be no risk or pressure involved. Also but I am not at all opposed to the game limiting or restricting inventory access during combat* ~but I do feel that it would be confusing if it paused the game when not in combat, but did not do it during a fight.

*I should clarify though: While I'm not opposed to it... it would not be my preference.

:yes: I agree with your post, and, in regards to your desire for dialogue interface, the world no longer freezes.

Aha!

Now I think I see where you are coming from! You threw me off with your illustration of the issue... confusing me by making references to what would be realistic, and then going on to suggest something that completely differed from that point. In reality, however, you are advocating that 'inventory' be treated as a mechanic of the game, rather than having any kind of basis on the 'realism' of the world in which the game takes place.

That is to say, the menu should be treated as a system... rather than as a part of the world?

I would like to congratulate both of you are one of the most peaceful disagreements I have thus far witnessed on these forums....also, I felt a need to write something as to remove the sixual-inuendo from my posts number...hello 70! :celebration:

Reasoned exposition? On my internet? :cryvaultboy:

Preferably. (Though every Fallout game clearly demonstrates how it can be exploited)

I have played games that give access to inventory freely, but do not allow certain actions during combat... like you can't switch armor mid fight. A good option might be to cue an action like stimpacks or healing potions, such that you only actually use it once the the inventory menu is exited, and that takes place in real-time.

Everything is doom and gloom with you Do. Is there even ONE THING your excited about?

Everything should be in real-time except maybe the character sheet. Opening the inventory or journal shouldn't pause time. The real-time menus in Demon's Souls made the game very exciting.

Yup! Having time continue in menus means that you have to plan your battles in advance instead of charging in headlong, secure in the knowledge that you can pause the game at any time to do whatever it is you should have planned for in the first place.

I also think that there should be a potion-drinking animation WITHIN BATTLES ONLY. Makes it harder to insta-heal unless you give yourself space and time to do it.

Oh gawd it'll take half a second to turn a page? Im cancelling my preorder that is unacceptable

Perhaps. I am, of course, not -opposed- to these traditional mechanics.


However, the idea of a real-time system... or an inventory based on in-game realistic features also highly appeals to me. In a game I was helping design for some time, we had in fact designed an 'inventory system' which relied entirely upon the player's equipment. If the player had no backpack, he was limited to only what he could sling over his shoulder and carry in his hands. If the player had a bag of various sizes, each of these was used to determine precisely how much space he had for gear.

The process of taking something -out- of the inventory was in real time, and involved the player literally dropping to the ground, shrugging off his bag, and opening it to reveal the items inside.

At the end of nearly a year of development, when the project lead resigned and everyone else on the team started fighting over who would succeed him, we had designed almost nothing of the game beyond inventory management. And so, even though the game never saw the light of day, that system alone forever shaded my interpretation of RPG menus. I have never again felt satisfied with simply being pulled into an out-of-game moment to play around with my items.

This is the perspective from which I come.

:clap: This is probably the greatest thing I've ever read on here. I agree 100%. This needs to be emphasized to a lot of members on here who think there's a group of individuals just dying to piss on the RPG genre-- which is completely and utterly untrue and ridiculous.

Sounds great to me. I always wished it worked like that in OB. Is this confirmed?

I'm not sure why all the arguing over the menus. We have seen the menus during the demos, we have had no reason to believe they would make it real-time when looking at your inventory/etc.

Reading books and conversing with NPC's is very different than looking at your in-game menu. The menu should always be the most "immersion-breaking", the rest can be easily made to feel organic to the game world.

As I said, I'm happy about this, mostly because I can now wait for a certain time on my own, instead of having yet another menu to "wait".

Edit- What I am not happy with, is having google nirn instead of a paper map. But that's another topic....

I agree with you completely, but where has real-time book reading been confirmed? I still haven't read anything in this thread with confirmation of this.

i think its pretty nice especially that reading uses game time, not like pausing.

well...im a nord so ill probably just use books for feeding my fires.

Honestly, how long do you think it will take to turn a page? Half a second, maybe? You know, like real life?

I previously posted about the June gameinformer, I believe the fact that it says that they can be "opened" has been questionably deduced to mean they are turned page by page and as time has passed it has contorted in our minds to indicate "real-time reading." It is a possibility, but I can only assume its based on broad statements and a little fairy dream dust.

Have you played Arx Fatalis or Stonekeep? Both had realtime inventories, and Arx was restricted to the bags your character had.

What you worked on does sound neat; but did you mean that the PC is animated as visually digging in their bags?

---

I really like the way Rune handled it. You could grab a few weapon type and they would hang off of your character, and he would draw them each as you picked them. That game was fantastic as designed, but it could have made a great RPG (had they been trying to make one).