I'm actually with the OP on this one. Yeah, I know, there's going to be a FT, but god... Morrowind's fast travel system actually got me thinking and planning my course while pondering about how can I save my money and my time.
His statements are actually very true, BGS designed the gameplay of OB only to be used with fast travel, there really was NO serious and realistic choice. (Let's be logical here, shall we?)
Besides, I remember in MW that there were LOTS of quests that you were free to aquire while walking down the road. In OB... well, it nearly (or possibly... never) never happend.
MW's system allowed just enough amount of fast-traveling around the world while still being restricted to the bounderies of "No, if you want to get from point A to point B fast enough a travel miles over miles of ground and mountains, you'll have to think a little as to how you will do it."

And the most interesting and I think, dare I say it, never mentioned point is that it kills the feeling of being trapped somewhere or being lost. Seriously, think about it, I remember when in MW I felt lost and trapped in Red Mountain, and in times I really got lost, but boy... when I found the place I was looking for... I was so [censored] happy and satisfied.

At times it was annoying, but it always, and I mean ALWAYS, added to the immersion and experience of the overwhole gameplay.

thanks

You know this forum has good mods when a topic like this shows up and there are 2 mods keeping a close eye on it.


Is your only problem with it the fact that you point-on-the-map and instantly "teleport" there and you can't justify why? Because as I said, traveling on foot seemingly like a chore is not the fault of the fast travel system.

If you dislike the instant porting, then I imagine you'd also dislike the Wait feature, because what is the player doing then? Just standing around staring off into space while the whole world moves around him/her? But all you need to do is make up a small story in your head to help suspend disbelief. "My character is waiting in a cave, so he/she sits down, eats some food, applies bandages to wounds, takes time to recooperate, and then an hour later, gets back up and continues." The same applies for fast travel. "My character walked from point-A to point-B without any significant events, maybe fighting a bear or something without any problems." It's just something to save time.

It really boils down to "if you don't like it, don't use it" because as long as it's just as fun to walk everywhere as it was in Morrowind, then there shouldn't be a problem. If there is, get a horse.

No, you're getting mixed up between believability and realism. Believability is grounded in consistency and is a separate concept to realism. For instance, magic isn't very realistic, but it's believable because it's a consistent part of the TES universe.

In terms of what you actually do as a player in terms of fast travel, using a scroll or talking to a caravanner is much more believable in the context of the game world than pretend running thousands of miles to collect a loaf of bread.

Honestly my own opinion on the matter goes deeper than the "fast travel" issue being in or out. If I were Bethesda I wouldn't remove the fast travel system as it is but perhaps make a few alternatives for role players. I believe Red Dead Redemption had a good travel system in place, can somebody give me a refresher course? Its been a while since I played it.

As to possible role play implementations we can look at how other games have used travel. Mass Effect is an interesting one since it is almost essentially the same thing as being described (against) in the OP. You open up your map and you can choose a location to "fast travel" to. Even though you are using a space ship there are role play elements that can be borrowed and they are:

• Cut-scenes emulating travel. This could be employed in Skyrim even if it just a brief third person view of your character walking into the scenery as the screen fades out.
  
• Fast travel "trees" or pivot locations. If you were not in a system that had a Mass Relay (a fast travel spot), you needed to "fast travel" to that system and essentially get on the bigger fast travel map. So maps within maps where you are required to use a bit more thought can be used.
  
• Fuel. Whether that be employed through food or what have you. Some sort of fuel substitute could help with fast traveling in Skyrim for roleplayers (and as a side note the fuel in Mass Effect was purely there for role players, as getting fuel was largely a trivial matter and didn't hinder gameplay).

I very much agree with the OP. A perfect example with the flaw of "don't like it, don't use it" is the Fighter's Guild quest line. Towards the end of it, the quests send you back and forth between Chorrol and Leyawiin multiple times. So your options are to either fast travel or make that very long, and boring journey on foot numerous times. It was very clearly designed with the mindset that the player would just fast travel.

no where in your topic had suggested that. and then there is this where you said what the point of the thread is....


???

and.... this topic has been kind of talked about way too many times. time to moooooove on.

Wouldn't it make more sense to implement fastravel in-game? I'm all for fast travel, but I'd rather have transportation services than instant transmission.

I'm cool with that. They'll keep you all in line while I wage my crusade against http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25Qhbdijv5Y


No, it's not. But the problem is that the only two options are both jarring to my (and I recognise that mine is not universal) gameplay experience. I can teleport there with scant explanation or I can hike it for three hours.


Well I do tend to try and find a bed rather than "wait", but the wait feature is different in that there is little more that can be reasonably done to explain it any better: your character is waiting. That's it. it doesn't need a complex gameplay mechanic. Getting from one side of the country to the other, across hostile territory in the dead of night, though... I'd like to see a little more explanation for that.

Only in this day and age is walking an unbelievable means of travel.... Thus is why America is in the health crisis it is.



The only difference in Morrowind's and Oblivion's system is that you have to walk back the SAME stretch of area you just walked from just so you can throw a small amount of gold at some guy to take you were need to go, in which somehow you don't have random encounters such as Cliffracer attacks. Why is that? The point is that roleplayers should be able to realize that fast travel is walking. You go somewhere and the time is calculated and changed to what it would be if you walked to said place. I don't see how taking a siltstrider is "lore-consistent" but walking is laziness. I think it just comes down to people not understanding something or not believing it unless they are told blatantly to their face what is going on. "Omg I just teleported because it didn't say anything." but if the screen popped up "And you walked to Cheydinhal" I bet no one would have any issue with fast travel. It's all about people having no imagination to realize what just is going on and it's not instant teleportation. Also, if Oblivion's system is just teleportation then Morrowind's is worse. Morrowind's is that you have to walk for 10 minutes THEN teleport.



Except it isn't a silly argument that only silly people use, it's the truth. Oblivion's fast travel is a much better option than Morrowind's. Morrowind's is restrictive. With Oblivion's fast travel, if the person wants to fast travel whenever they need to travel, that's their choice. If someone wants something like Morrowind's fast travel system, then don't fast travel except when your in a city and only to another city. Look, you got your alternative travel system without wasting development time to do it. Then people like me where we don't use it unless we need to get from one side of the map to the other or some other extraneous circumstance. Finally, there are the people that don't like any form of fast travel and just don't use it at all. Morrowind's cuts out the people that like fast traveling everyone unfairly when the current fast travel system lets everyone do what they want, including the MW fast travel fans. I still don't see what is unbelievable about walking to a place during fast travel but you know what is more unbelievable than walking to a destination? A static fast travel NPC that is always there ready to take you anywhere you want to go. That is the most immersion breaking thing that could happen in Skyrim now that TES is a true, living, breathing world.

It basically comes down to people needing to realize that the current fast travel system is far more flexible and allows everyone to have their own means of fast travel. Morrowind's fast travel system is restricting.

Agreed.
If you don't like it, don't use it.

Yeah I said it.

Although it'd be cool to use things like those flying ships in WoW that move pretty fast.

you know what might add to the feeling of fast travel? occasional random events that stop you and pit you against something. Maybe enemies, maybe an NPC asking for something, who's to say? Of course, the NPCs should be randomly generated, and the event should make use of the radiant quest system. Dunno, just seemed odd that I couldn't walk somewhere without running into SOMETHING but i could fast travel and suddenly everything disappeared.

My opinion is, fast travel will always be in the game for the simple reason that they have to at least partially gear the game towards the casual player. And for the most part the casual player is going to want to complete the game as quickly as possible, and be able to move onto other games, which is why for them Oblivion style fast travel is the best. Yes, many of the hardcoe players are not going to like it, but it makes the most economical sense for Bethesda. But to me, I have no problems with the fast travel system in Oblivion, when I had less time to play I used it, but when I have a few hours I would not use it. It is strictly a matter of self control, really, and each person's playing style.

In order to fast travel in RDR, you have the following methods:
1. You can travel between towns by getting on board a carriage.

2. You can find a flat spot, not near any enemies and not inside a settlement, set up a camp, and fast travel. I think it may have been possible to FT from your home as well.

Its just a horrible argument. I like it, I'd just rather have it handled better. Sorry? Should I not use axe's because I feel they could be handled better?

No cause then I would be restricted to set destinations. I want to quickly get from anywhere to anywhere when I need to. I bet BGS thought their game world looked great and figured you would only use fast travel when you needed to. They overlooked two things though:

1. People thought the game world was bland (I disagree, but their we are).

2. Needless fetch missions.

There is nothing wrong with Oblivion's fast-travel, what was wrong were the quest.

everybody has their hobbyhorses, one of mine is how painful it would be for an Khajiit or Argonian to have a fit any human type iron helmet deform their ears, not very pleasant for Bosmer either.
Do I expect separate helmets for beast races and woodelfs: no I don't.

Oh yeah, I did mix that up a bit.

But still, as the thread title suggest, it's just an opinion. Just like I don't mind the fast travel. It's all subjective. Besides, if anyone for that matter, wants to see the world and explore, there's no one holding a gun to your head saying you can only use fast travel.

And to be quite honest; it may not be a compromise but Bethesda will do what they think is best, sometimes under the influence of fans and sometimes not. Besides, I'm certain that we on this forum is just a fraction of the total Elder Scrolls players. Bethesda can't really just listen to us here, they need to make sure they deliver a consistent experience so that those that aren't on the forums, can still have a slight grasp of what to expect.

A horse and buggy service (anolog to stilt strider in morrowind), Magical Transportation, Mark, Recall, Interventions, and Boats along the shoreline would add up to not needing fast travel. If all these things were in Oblivion then I would not ever have used fast travel, but since they weren't, I was pretty much forced to use fast travel. Just not using fast travel is a ridiculous option if there is no alternative.

If you like fast travel, you can use it.

If you don't like fast travel, you don't have to use it.

Now, could you imagine if you did like fast travel, but COULDN'T use it?

RPG games should be all about OPTIONS. If you just give the player the OPTION, then it becomes up to him/her whether or not they want to use it.

It's better to have something and not use than to not have it and never be able to use it.

This complaint is so beyond my understanding that I think this is the last time I'm going to post about it.

If you don't like axes you have swords and bows and an arsenal of weapons at your disposal. I don't understand what is so hard to understand about it.
If you don't like shrimp, don't eat them.

While that did make me laugh, I have to point out the difference between walking (the preferable method of getting to school for most children) and hiking


While I do vastly prefer Morrowind's system because I just always found it more - that horrible, overused word - immersive, I'm not saying that it is the only solution to this problem and was the be all end all system. I would be happy with a DA:O/FO system that shows you trekking across the world and interrupts with the occasional random encounter with some text describing the journey (ie. Bendu takes a boat across the lake. Dragon attack! *Pokémon battle music*)


That doesn't do anything to address Oblivion's issues with boring landscape and zero alternatives to its fast travel system. That's simply the "don't like it, don't use it" argument with some padding.

Some of us are casual gamers who want to enjoy the game for what it is, and not all of us have an extra hour to waste by walking to our destination or finding the boat/transport mage guy. Chances are, if you can't stand an entire game because of 1 feature that the majority of players like, then it's not the game for you.

Most people like fast travel, and Betheda has to appeal to the majority of players. They're not going to piss off the biggest of their customers and lose out on profits just to appeal to a minority of people obsessed with "immersion".

If things aren't realistic enough for you in a video game, go out and do things in real life . That's about as real as you're gonna get.

I agree with you, it all comes down to the play style each person uses. Nothing in the game is going to please everyone, nor should it.

I think the issue with fast travel is more the quest design. There should be bigger quests, that have you required to make a decent dtrip, but a lot of stuff should be localized. Thus no need to run for 20 mins to get to a quest, then 20 mins back. Because this type of quest encourages fast travel.

The problem with fast travel threads is that the anti-fast travel faction... well, portrays themselves as the anti-fast travel faction, when they really aren't. If you continue to frame your arguments as simply reasons why Oblivion-style fast travel should be completely removed, then you're going to continue to be frustrated by people using iron tight arguments against said removal. There is no counter-argument to "Don't like it, don't use it," because that's pretty much the definitive answer to a feature that's completely optional. In short, you have managed to straw man yourselves, by positioning yourselves as though you were against having the option to use Oblivion-style fast travel at all.

The real problem is that you don't care about Oblivion-style fast travel. In fact, you're the opposite of being anti-fast travel. you want more fast travel options, ones that make more sense to you within the context of the game narrative. If you actually came out and said this, and started actually calling for the thing you want instead of something completely different, maybe you'd have more luck.

tldr: Your problem is saying "No Oblivion-style fast travel" when you really don't care if there's Oblivion-style fast travel or not. What you want is "Morrowind-style fast travel".