Just pointing it out there...

What's the point of boats if they have absolutely no use?!

Think about it...

We can have both. I edited as much into the OP. The primary purpose of this thread was to rail against the "don't like it, don't use it" argument, which is embodied in the fast travel debate perfectly

greatcarbuncle, as much as I support your ideas, I fear debate is pointless. Look at all of those who adamantly and coherently fought for spears, who used logic and reasoning and to no avail. Sadly, I fear that although your intentions are pure, the cause is simply pointless. Gaming has evolved, and despite the hardcoe audience being abundant on these forums, we are a triviality in the grand scheme of things. Those who fight against intradiegetic fast travel are not want to persuasion, as you have no doubt noticed, and your efforts are therefor rendered moot. Game developers dismiss our plight not because they do not understand our desires, but merely because it is not important in their eyes. The hardcoe audience will buy the game no matter what form of fast travel exists, while the potential customers could be dissuaded by more complicated means of transport.

Been there, done that, still got shouted down by the howlers. :shrug:

As much as I like Morrowind's fast travel system, I didn't mind Oblivion's. I think my only problem was being able to fast travel to any cave, dungeon, or ruin. May'be they can limit fast travel to only safe locations. I don't know how the level scaling is going to be in Skyrim, but may'be they can make it so you can't fast travel to locations where there is a possibility of encountering enemies stronger than you.

On my first play through of Ob , i was determined that i wasn't going to use FT. Then after i join the fighting guild, i get charged to do some favour... Then from that - i have to go from Cheydinhal to Leyawin , then from Leyawin to some dungeon to collect ectoplasm, then back to Leyawin , then i gotta walk all the way back from there ,up to Cheydinhal.
Just so i can gain 1 lol rank in the FG, took me like 7hr's.

After than i just used Teleport everwhere, so i agree , that game definatly was designed soley with FT in mind.

Exactly, games will always be geared towards the casual player, as they far outnumber the hardcoe players. They always have to make the game for the largest audience. Does not mean there should not be some choices, but only if they do not take away from development time of other things.

Thats a leap. Thats like Leaper King status.

He is right. People besides us on the forums would question why they would pay (to go to a set destination) instead of fast-traveling to anywhere they want.

It makes sense to some, but the mass majority would be like WTF? You don't make a game for some, that would be a bad business model.

You know... just for these kinds of reasons exists the Creation-Kit... If we don't like fast-travel, we can ALWAYS mod it out and add other ways of fast-traveling.
Ofcourse... it won't be as good as Beth can do it, but hell it's worth a try!

Immersion matters to me enough to sign up on a message board about a video game and spend entirely too much time discussing ways to make this game more immersive. I just don't obsess about it enough to let something stupid like fast traveling to a destination curb my enjoyment of the game.

Immersion only works so much. It's not like I'm going to forget that I'm sitting on a couch holding a controller in my hand. I like to roleplay and act as I believe my character would act in-game just as much as anyone else, but I'm not a supernerd about it.

I don't even understand the alien DLC pack comment so I'm just gonna leave it alone.

But that's the point. I said that there would have to be a schedule to the travel networks and people said no, they want static travel networks, which is just unacceptable because it doesn't fit in the living world TES has become. As I've said, I only use fast travel to get from one side of the province to the other. So I wasn't the one that shot down having a travel network with fast travel, it was the people that wanted travel networks, they want static travel networks which just won't do. They will have to be on a schedule where they aren't available at all times for those that don't want to use fast travel or not at all. No need to break the fluidity of the world with a wagon that is always at a place and waiting just for you to go.

It's just that, when you entitle your thread "Why Oblivion's fast travel svcks," it gives off the impression of an attack on the mere existence of Oblivion-style fast travel. Which is, really, making enemies you don't need to be making.

I played OB for nearly 100 hours before using fast travel, my friend also avoid fast travel, many did. And I felt that I got much more enjoyment out of the game because of it. And will do the same for Skyrim, also if horse are made faster in SR that will be another option for console users.

I am in for Fast Travel if it has random generated encounters.

Exactly, he actually said that this was what he wanted to say, he hated Oblivion's fast travel and attacked this kind of fast-travel form. He doesn't hate fast-travel in general, he just hates OB fast travel system.

I always here people say how all horses were so slow. Yes, the cheaper horses were slow but Shadowmere ran incredibly fast. I've never found anything wrong with playing with complete fast travel, partial fast travel and no fast travel. I've done them all and I liked them all.

Excellent OP, I agree with every word of it.

Let's bring in Fallout 3's fast-travel into this debate. I preferred its fast-travel over Morrowind’s or Oblivion’s. From the moment I stepped out of Vault 101 and looked out over the Capital Wasteland, all I wanted to do was explore. Something that I feel worked well was that you couldn't just fast-travel everywhere for the sake of simplicity; as in the case of Oblivion, you could zap straight from the sewers to Weynon Priory to Kvatch, back to Weynon Priory and then to Cloud Ruler Temple. There was no encouragement to actually explore the game world. Then look at Fallout 3; the first thing you did upon exiting the Vault was head to Megaton — which, I might add, was only a two-minute walk — to further the main quest’s story. In my opinion, the fact that you couldn’t just fast-travel to major towns and settlements was a good idea, and the fact that they didn’t show up on your map right at the start of the game was an even better one. It encouraged players to actually explore the world, but granted them the ability to fast-travel back to locations they’d previously explored to eliminate the chance that getting around would become mundane.

I have a solution that’s sure to satisfy everyone; model Skyrim’s world exploration after Fallout 3. Encourage players to explore the land of Skyrim first, before the fast-travel feature becomes available to them. Once the tutorial mission is completed and the quest update leads you to a distant city, don’t allow the player to just fast-travel there: make them explore the world and get there first, then extend the opportunity to them to fast-travel back there. Things would work out much better for everybody.

As M'aiq likes to say;

"So much easier to get around these days. Not like the old days. Too much walking. Of course, nothing stops M'aiq from walking when he wants."

The horses were unrealistically slow for console players, to be truly useful as a travel method there needs to be more than one horse in the game that moves at a decent pace. I think Beth would likely realize this and make them faster for SR.

Are people even reading the OP?

He says ignoring fast-travel doesn't work, because then we have to spend 15 minutes walking across a generic landscape populated by minotaur lords. We don't want to be bored, and have to re-do things over and over! It's not good for immersion either. We're practically forced to use it, unless there's a more logical means of fast travel, which also makes the game world more believable. What province in this Empire wouldn't have some proper means of transportation? No carts, boats or anything? How does trade and communication work then?

Yet people still say " Don't like it don't use it".








:swear: ARE YOU NOT LISTENING!


Sorry for the rant, but this is getting irritating!

I dont really get why people call Oblivions fast travel teleporting. in Morrowind you actually teleport and does time even pass when you use things like boats

Have you been reading at all ? Really ? Have you read any post in this entire thread, just one ? No ?

It′s not about Fast Travel being in, it′s about other content being out because of poor design justified by there being fast travel.

So after one mods out fast travel, I suppose the next step is to create models for travel services, then make them functional, then re-shaping the landscape and making everything fit, and while we are at it why not just re-make the entire game through modding ?

And while I am myself a PC gamer, what about the console gamers ?

No, see, this is the kind of mistaken impression the OP's side needs to fix.

In the OP's eyes:

- Having a game with just Oblivion-style fast travel would be bad.
- Having a game with no fast travel at all would be equally bad.
- Having a game with just intradiegetic fast travel would be good.
- Having a game with both intradiegetic and Oblivion-style fast travel would be equally good.

(I'm just guessing here, admittedly, but this seems like the logical conclusion from his arguments)

He doesn't hate the Oblivion fast travel system at all. He hates the absence of a different kind of fast travel in Oblivion.

But if you want to see most of the content the game has to offer ,Unless you wanna spend a 1000 + hrs walkin' up, down , to and fro - cyrodil ; you really have no choice other than to fast travel.