I may be a little confused about the history of the Amulet of Kings, as presented in TES IV. . .

My somewhat shaky grasp of Tamrielic History (from in-game books I maybe 1/2 remember) is that you have the "Mythic Era", during which the Ayleids, who were Daedra worshippers, ruled Tamriel at the behest of the Daedra Princes, and in particular, Mehrunes Dagon. Men, Argonians, and Kahjiit were slaves of the Ayleids, and were often killed/sacrificed to Mehrunes and the other Daedra. St. Allesia then appealed to Akatosh to help men to be safe from the Daedra, so Akatosh forged the Amulet of Kings, which is used to light the Dragonfires, which create a barrier sealing off Oblivion.

My understanding then, is that Allesia's descendant, Reman Cyrodiil founded the first Cyrodiilic empire. This ended, and their was an interregnum, known as the 2nd Era, during which there was no empire(?), then Tiber Septim (who, presumably, is another descendant of Allesia) recovered the Amulet of Kings and founded the 2nd Cyrodiilic Empire, and the Third Era encompasses the reign of that dynasty.

So, the question is, why didn't the Oblivion Gates open during the 2nd Era interregnum? Is it because there was no 'agent' in Mundus to accomplish necessary rituals (e.g. in TES IV, we have Mankor Camoran and the Mythic Dawn acting as agenst of Mehrunes Dagon and the Daedra)? Did the Daedra actually need agents in Mundus to open the gates, or would the failing of the Dragonfires be sufficient to allow Dagon to once again enter Mundus?

Are there other lines of Allesia's descendants that aren't of the Septim line? In Oblivion, much of the Lore revovles around the mythos that a Septim must use the Amulet to light the Dragonfires, but sometimes religion, lore and history are . . . manipulated to serve those in power (e.g. the divine claims of the Egyptian Pharaohs, or the claims of divinity of Roman Emperor's, and more recently, Japanese Emperors). Now, of course, in the world of the Elder Scrolls, there is at least some truth to the claim, in that the Dragonfires did prevent Dagon and has armies from entering Mundus. But the question is, couldn't *any* descendant of St. Allesia/Reman Cyrodiil have used the Amulet of Kings?

We know that Martin Septim was an illegitimate descendant, and so could use the Amulet of Kings. I remember one or more of the books in Morrowind and Oblivion talking about one of the Septim dynasty who was notorious for his promiscuity. How is it possible that, by the time of Uriel VII, 1/2 the Empire aren't descendants of Tiber Septim? I would imagine that, given the history of feudalism in Europe, every count, baron, and minor noble in the Empire would be descended, at least distantly, from the Septims. Of course, the story of TES IV still basically holds true, because even if there were many descendants, the last thing you want is a war of succession at a time the land is already threatened by outside aggressors (in this case, the Daedra).

[Edited to fix spelling mistakes]

Good observations.

I don't have the time to write down a complete reply but it basically comes down to two things. The blood relation is not about any physical relation and the Amulet of Kings isn't the only thing up the barrier between Mundus and Oblivion.

The topic has been discussed before shortly after the release of Oblivion. The forum is eaten but you can still read the http://www.imperial-library.info/yabbfiles/Attachments/what_kept_the_daedra_away.rar version. (I just dumped it TIL's forum, just one more of those things that needs to be done). Nevermind the ugly layout.

As for why gates didn't open during the times when there was no emperor, the prevailing theory is that White-Gold Tower and the Amulet aren't the only things that maintain the barriers. Basically, all the mythical Towers help maintain the barriers, and that provided some wiggle-room in how many Towers need to be active to continue to do so. Red Tower had been active during all that time, but was deactivated shortly before Oblivion, during Morrowind. During Oblivion, there were two Towers down (three, if you count Walk-Brass, but that one's only been intermittently active anyway), which was enough to allow the Oblivion invasion.

Can i point out the other alternative explanation to the OP without it being considered OB bashing?

I'd hate for he/she to think that the credit for for the attempt to make OB lore friendly should go to Bethesda rather than the lore buffs.

Wait, there are other towers? I played Morrowind, and I don't remember anything about a "Red Tower"? Perhaps that was a sidequest I missed? What's this about Walk-Brass Tower? I've never come across any mention of that (to be fair, I've not read every single in-game book; it's something I've meant to get around to - I do read books, but I've just not been motivated enough to hunt down every book. . . there's just so much other stuff to do and get done to save the world, you know?)

They're all mentioned in the http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/nu-hatta_nu-mantia.shtml.

If you played Morrowind you saw one of the towers and you saw a replica of another. Red Mountain (the mountain Dagoth Ur) is Red Tower. Akulakhan (that golem Dagoth Ur was building in Red Mountain) was a copy of the Numidium, which is the same thing as the tower Walk-Brass.

:turtle:

Here's the short version on the Towers:

When the gods created the world, they met at the Adamantine Tower; as the Tower was the meeting point for creation, it became an anchor for Creation, and basically helped hold the whole thing together. Then, when they tore out Lorkhan's heart, a mountain formed around it, and basically echoed the Adamantine Tower, and thus took on a similar role, and became the Red Tower.

After that, the elves caught on to this, and created their own towers that also served that purpose, but also could tap into great stores of magicka, which they could use to serve their own purposes.

Here's a list of the known Towers, as well as where they are:

Adamantine Tower, aka: Direnni Tower, in High Rock
Red Tower, aka: Red Mountain, in Morrowind
White-Gold Tower, aka: the Imperial City, in Cyrodiil
Walk-Brass Tower, aka: the Numidium, now destroyed
Snow-Throat Tower, aka: High Hrothgar, in Skyrim
Crystal-Like-Law Tower, aka: the Crystal Tower, in Summerset
Green-Sap Tower, possibly Fallenesti, in Valenwood
Orichalc Tower, in the Redguard homeland of Yokuda

What happened to walk-brass tower?

Walk-Brass / Numidium was destroyed in the Warp in the West.

Just a question, but the Numidium was destroyed once before the Warp of the West too wasn't it? Could it be put back together a second time?

The Mantella wasn't destroyed, and the pieces were recovered. So yes, it looked to have been put back together a second time.

I don't know if it's ever conclusively stated what happened to the Numidium after Daggerfall, but considering the nature of the Dragon Break, I'm guessing its destruction was less in the vein of "broken into pieces", and more in the "wiped from the space-time continuum" sort of way.

And the Mantella was, to my knowledge, destroyed. At least for some versions of it, anyway (the Underking, and Mannimarco version of events, I believe).

Before Daggerfall, not after!

Well, I was asking if it could be put back together again after it was destroyed in Daggerfall.

Then why didn't you say so? Right now, I'd say no, since there's nothing to power it, even if all pieces were recovered.

It's still fighting somewhen.

Sorry can't find the quote.

"It's not the Brass God that wrecks everything so much as it is all the plane(t)s and timelines that orbit it, singing world-refusals.

The Surrender of Alinor happened in one hour, but Numidium's siege lasted from the Mythic Era until long into the Fifth. Some Mirror Logicians of the Altmer fight it still in chrysalis shells that phase in and out of Tamrielic Prime, and their brethren know nothing of their purpose unless they stare too long and break their own possipoints."