Browsing through the forums for the past two months, there seems to me that there are a lot of people that hate minigames. Where, in my case, I beleive they create more depth in the game.

Now, should some minigames improve? Of course! BUT, I would not want them to be taken out.

I like the quick fingers and timing of the pick game. It actually makes me feel like I'm picking a lock. I prefer it much more over the fallout version.

Anyhow, is this just the case of a louder minority or is my observation true that most don't like minigames?

Persuasion mini game = horrible
Lock picking mini game = good, until you get skeleton key

That is all.

The lock picking minigame was total dreck. Anyone with even the most basic motor skills could always complete the locks with a single pick. It was easy street.

Persuasion mini game = horrible
Lock picking mini game = good, until you get skeleton key you figure out how to open any lock with lockpicking a skill of 5

I want minigames like "Archery Competitions" or long-distance horseback races (get from point a to point b. no rules, beware.).

And it doesn't seem people hate these:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1162155-let-the-minigames-begin/

That is a reason I don't like it. Lock picking should be based on my character's skill, and not me the player.

This.

There was no point to the lockpicking skill when i can open any lock pretty easily at base-lockpicking level.

I want some boxes and doors to be unopenable to me until i reach the needed lockpick skill.

Agreed. It makes no sense that my character has 10 lockpick skill but I can still open every very hard lock in the game. This is an RPG after all.

The lock pick game was a poor game IMO, the persuasion game... represented idle chit-chat in the abstract, and I understood the theory of it, but I would rather it have just been a speech check.
(And I felt the same way with locks ~I'd rather it have been a skill check).

In answer to the OP... My best estimation (a weighted guess really), is that a large number of players want a pure world simulator instead of an RPG, and anything that takes them out of the experience by presenting an out of narrative aspect (like the speech mini-game UI), is just not looked upon favorably, as it is seen as an intrusive reminder that it is a game they are playing. (AKA "an Immursion breaker").

I'm the opposite these days, I prefer more things to involve player skill rather than be solely based on numbers or randomness.

But its not... The player character that knows nothing of locks should not have all the locks picked for them by the player; its a restriction of not developing skill in lock picking. While the PC that's an expert in locks, should not need any help picking locks. :shrug:

In an RPG... your experience should be limited to what your PC can actually accomplish ~else why make a PC at all?

Dice rolls in the game reflect probability... The greater skilled the PC is ~at picking locks... say.. the less often they will make a mistake ~but everyone makes mistakes, no matter how skilled they are.

Haters be hatin.

Ain't never no reason for the hate, they just got to.

Same thing as the lockpicking mini-game in fallout 3 and the hacking mini-game, repetition. You end out just doing the mini-games so much it becomes repetative rather then fun anymore.

I honestly didn't mind the lockpicking game at all. why?
BECAUSE IT PLEASES THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS!
want a RPG? USE THE [censored] AUTO-PICK FUNCTION!
want it to be real (AKA even losers get it right sometimes...) then try it yourself.

I can't believe how people think it goes in the way of RPing. IT GIVES YOU MORE CHOICE WHEN IT'S CONTROLLED BY THE PLAYER! RP restrictions should be made by you. I prefer to say "oh, my character won't pick locks" than to see "you can't even TRY it, you svck!"

i'm cool with minigames if they're involving. picking locks in Fallout 3 was fantastic. picking locks in Oblivion was terrible. hacking in Fallout 3 was pretty cool. persuasion in Oblivion was terrible.

i'm also cool with skill requirements as long as they're not some stupid YOUR LOCKPICK MUST BE 50 TO OPEN THIS LOCK, EVEN IF YOU'RE AT 49 RIGHT NOW. the difficulty of the lock should be reflected in the lockpicking minigame itself, and in how forgiving it is to the player.

take Fallout 3's lockpicking, for instance. at skill 100, every lock should be a piece of cake. your picks should last longer and sweet spots should be bigger. make it feel like you actually know what the hell you're doing.

you should still be able to attempt to pick level 100 locks with very low skill levels, but at the same time they should be much, much less forgiving. the sweet spots should be TINY. your picks should break easily. as a player, if you manage to successfully pick such a difficult lock, you should feel genuinely proud of the accomplishment, and your skill increase should reflect that.

This makes perfect sense. You should be able to attempt it at any level, its just harder if you don't have enough skill. In OB higher level locks weren't really harder to pick then lower levels ones, regardless of your skills.

A mini-game killed my wife...

Fa real tho, I'm not a fan of Oblivion's mini-games. Not to say some minigames couldn't work better.



I still haven't played Fallout, but I'm curious now what the lockpicking is like. A good lockpicking mini-game, in my opinion, would be one where you try and follow a direction indicator on the screen, and move your joystick in time...kind of like grinding was done in a few skateboard games. However, if your skill was low and the lock was strong, it would be very hard to pick the lock with manual dexterity alone, and yet if your skill was appropriate, it would be almost impossible to fail. It's just a mechanic to make you feel like you are doing something, rather than simply pressing a button, like in Morrowind.

Of course, there should never be an "impossible" cut off, especially the "50 lock, skill 49" one mentioned above. But the larger the difference, the smaller probability of your character picking the lock. So if you sat all night and burned 25 lockpicks (I prefer Morrowinds, which degrade like weapons rather than snapping like twigs, although the occasional snap wouldn't be bad) you might eventually open a lock way beyond your skill (and, as above, receive a corresponding bonus.) I also believing characters should "learn through failure" at least a little bit. So even if you never open the lock, play with it long enough and you learn a thing or two. Of course, the longer you are picking a lock the more likely you are to get caught.

Really? Because I don't understand the "theory" of admiring, joking, boasting, then coercing a person, even less after knowing that person don't like some of those.

The lockpicking game at least was logical.

I think the minigames were too easy to exploit at low levels. But I don't really want JUST a skill check either, that would be boring. They need to come up with a better minigame and have much less moveability around your skill level.

There are two types of minigames - those that shatter immersion and those who do not.

The lockpicking game is of the latter category, and I actually approved of it. Yes, this is an rpg, but imo a truly great rpg is your character's build amplified by your skills at the game. To satisfy the people who wanted more reward for more lockpicking, the overall game could be made harder - a difficulty that slowly disappears as you level lockpicking.

The persuasion minigame on the other hand totally broke immersion, and a monkey could do it. Less of this in Skyrim please.

Minigames and Quicktime events are fated to disappear as gaming progresses, incorperated into more immersive elements.

I like minigames, but I'd rather they governed only much less significant (or hidden, optional) activities in the game. Lockpicking and persuasion are examples of activities that are too significant, or oft-repeated to be governed by minigames.

NPC-granted skill training, unique side-quests, and any activity that represents an actual mini-game "in-character" -- archery contests, card games -- are what they should be reserved for, I think.

I still think it was better than Morrowind's (OMG! Heretic! :tongue: )

I still think Morrowind's was best, mainly because I'm lazy and all I want to do is just wiggle my lockpick at a door and be done.

http://tof.canardpc.com/view/0d688270-c4e1-4d1d-805f-054056bab373.jpg
here we go again. Skills, numbers and algorithms have nothing to do with RPG. RPG are about role playing your character. and I really don't see "No you can't swing your sword like that, you miss one point in sword skills" really is RP.
Skills were made back in time because there was NO computer games powerful enough to calculate whether you hit the guy in the head, in the leg or completely miss him. So they did it by dices.


What I'd like to see is the perfect combination between skills requirements and player's dexterity. Sorry but Morrowind just svcked at that. Lockpicking was the Optimus Prime of boring stuff in this game.
I want to still have a chance even if I svck at lockpicking. I want to be able to try to pick that damn lock. Just make the minigame a hell harder. THIS is rp. Not a message telling you "DUUUH YOU FAILED " DUUUH YOU FAILED""DUUUH YOU FAILED""DUUUH YOU FAILED""DUUUH YOU FAILED""DUUUH YOU FAILED""DUUUH YOU FAILED" "YAY YOU DID IT", after spending 5 minutes spamming the left mouse button.
Skills should have a influence on what you do (like how long you can aim precisely with your bow drawn without beeing exhausted, how fast you get on your feet when knock back, stuff like that. But they should rule the way you play.

same. I got this undeserved sense of accomplishment and satisfaction whenever i opened a very hard lock on my first try.

I just enjoyed the lock level thing and the traps and the fact you could pick the locks of Doors that had Keys.
Also, Oblivions Speechcraft game is total trash, they could do better, I'd take the spam click Bribe 10 gold option any day.

Some people moan about everyone wanting Morrowind features with the "Why don't you go play Morrowind" We did, hundreds of times. The Point is Morrowind amazingly got most of the "smaller" things right, first try, lock picking/traps is great in Morrowind, simple but effective, Speechcraft well while bribing was far better than admiring the system overall did it's job well for it's purpose.

I'd rather see Morrowind's Persuasion system return but without the bribing part (only have it appear with certain quests/NPCS etc. to give Admire etc. a proper use) And have the Door Lock level/Lockpicking/Trap system return maybe with a slight twist, same simplicity but have it so you actually have to aim into the keyhole with lockpick in hand and just pick away until it unlocks.