There is a difference here. It's more like seeing famous landmark demolished to make way for a strip mall that pays for itself.

That sentence is silly and you know it.

In your mind, but there are other minds then yours. I love the old games yet I don't make above comparisons. So yeah, its still egocentric.


Just as silly as the text I was quoting.

What Gizmo said made sense and wasn't silly at all. It was relatable, too.

Todd Howard Game... is that what the kids are calling it nowadays?

Yeah, them todd howard games sure are great, it depends on my mood though sometimes I like to play a Gabe Newell game...

Jokes, aside, Bethesda games are fun.

It can make all the sense in the world, at it's core it was still silly, childish "I don't like something anymore so no one else should"

Now if only they'd put the same effort in writing, mechanics and RPG elements, OP...

Not at all, he never said no one can appreciate the game. He just said that there is a reason if people complain about new things, also, it must be pretty frustrating to see people blindly accepting every change the game does (not saying you do, not making any names).

they probably came to that crossroad early on but decided to focus more on explorational freedom. I love that they allow us to explore there worlds unhindered by invisible walls but thats just me and as long as they keep doing there games like that they can have my money.

Why play Sandbox Games ?

For instant gratification and the exculpation of ones responsibility (well that's what they've become)?

That's true, Istvan Pely is equally deleterious to Fallout as Todd Howard is.

That's the problem, Bethesda cares more about invisible walls than flagrant plothole.

It's not fair to tear down walls for some fans and widen chasms for others, if Bethesda respected Fallout's writing and it's original ethos they would cease the floccinaucinihilipilification of such.

Yes I wanted to use that word

Watch out Eden, you're getting too wild. And you know what happens when people start replying to wild comments...

Just think about you self-exploding in Fallout 3.

Now that you are done having your really devoted fan/fangirl moment... can we go back to reality?

For one, while Todd Howard is a legendary designer and has created (a long with many talented people) what I argue are some of the best games in the industry, I believe you are warping his philosophy just a bit. The point of a BGS game is to go where you want and do what you want. BGS has never stated that philosophy better since Morrowind. It's about giving the player almost unlimited freedom and control in which we make the experience.

That philosophy has never changed, but BGS has taken strides to keep up with their competitors. A fully-voiced protagonist, volumetric lighting, physics-based rendering, an all-new lighting system with dynamic shadows, top-tier FPS mechanics, and a revamped crafting system affecting armor, weapons, and even buildings are some of the new ways in which BGS is adding to their arsenal.

I personally love the excessive amount of detail BGS puts into their games and I do believe it adds to the immersion and breadth of the game. However, I wouldn't say that detail, itself, is more important than the core phiosophy or any of areas BGS is improving on. Story is something BGS wants to do a better job of developing and so is character development. With joinable factions this time around, more player control and choice is definitely a big push as Fallout 3 was somewhat limited.

Todd and his team have taken Fallout and made it their own. Maybe he and his team took it in a direction some did not like and he must live with that but he and his team have now been working on the Fallout Series for longer than the original team worked on the IP. He and his team have made it their own. Taken some basics and made it one of the most popular and best selling games currently on the market today. We can blame him and his team for not following another teams footprints or we can applaud him for taking the game down a different path that seems to please more people, attract more fans, make more money and that brings entertainment to more people than ever before.

Some see that as a sell out. Others see it as a success. But regardless of how you perceive it, Todd and his team have put years of work into this game. They have now worked and made Fallout games as long as the original owners/developers. They have indeed made it their own. Regardless of if you like the games they make or hate them, you can not disregard the fact that they have been successful in their endeavor to make games people like.

What people? Well, you can sit all day and indicate it's the "casual players" or "console players" or "less intelligent" or "people who don't like to read" or any number of other things I've heard through the years attacking or ridiculing people who like to play the games developed by Bethesda's team (Todd's team). But there is no shame in making games that sell well, keeps people on the edge of their chair waiting for the next one and that are praised and applauded by media and the game industry.

It takes much more to do that than it does to visit a fan forum to ridicule the team leader and his team of a successful game series and the fans of those games on a game forum that is sponsored and run by those very people some feels so passionate about dissing. Debating with happy fans to try and convince them they should not be happy or driving home the point of how unhappy you and those like you are really serves no purpose except to create anger, irritate and humiliate the actual fans of Bethesda's approach. Those who love this path taken. Some who never walked the first path granted but also some who have walked both paths.

You don't like their approach, nobody will make you buy it, play it or otherwise engage in it at all. So go out and find a game you love and play it, talk about it, and enjoy it. But for goodness sake, let those who enjoy this one do so without judgement and frantic and rude debate.

In my opinion, they have taken their games down a path nobody else has. Sandbox, dungeon crawling, action, RPG, Sims mixture that has become so popular they can't make enough collector's editions to keep their fans happy. They have taken the best of all those types of games and brought it together into a world one can become lost in for hours and hours on end.

But this game is what it is. No apologies should be needed. We can still play the early ones if we like but this game is Bethesda's game. Love it or leave it. And let others decide for themselves if they love it or hate it based upon their own criteria. And what they like is really none of your business and it doesn't make them a lesser person because they like what they like. So get out of each others face. Good grief.

"The sage does not expect that others use his criteria as their own." ~Lao Tzu

Can't do. Fallout is not just a name, it is also a fandom and it would be immoral to ignore that fact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG4W0LbIvW0

I agree this is 8s what has transpired with the series. I also like the new mall over the landmark if you will. I see more along the lines that the mall was built around the landmark as a nice centerpiece. Now I enjoy it for what it is.

Don't forget that not all old fans universally despise the direction Bethesda took. We're not some sort of hive mind just because we played Fallout back in the late 90's.

I was obsessed with Fallout 1 and 2 back in the day - I only came to this forum because of Fallout 3. I actually enjoy Bethesda's interpretation of the franchise overall.

Everyone has their individual opinions and can speak for themselves. Just because Bethesda had their own vision for the game doesn't innately mean they didn't care about the old fans like me. I rather think they feel they're making something everyone can enjoy.

But there's that thing about pleasing all the people all the time...

In regards to this anology; Honestly, how much of the landmark is still intact?

Just the representation of what once was a reflection on the world of fallout. The people don't really come to the mall anymore to admire the statue they come to partake in the new mall surrounding the historical figure.

A better comparison would be with Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones. There are the books (Fallout 1, 2, and Tactics) that were highly praised and considerered masterpieces. Then there's the films/television series (Fallout 3, NV, and now 4) that revolutionized and increased the popularity of the books and the entire franchise a hundred times over.

Many did not know of the books and likely would never have known about them had the movies/films not been made. Far more love those franchises because of what the newer mediums of entertainment had done to revive the older form of entertainment (reading in this case).

Fallout 3 was a reboot of the Fallout franchise. It wasn't a sequel. It was a retelling and a revamp of a cult classic RPG on PC. It's not meant to be a classic, isometric standard RPG of the 90s. BGS turned it into a first person open world RPG with a focus on combat, choices, and surviving the wasteland. You can argue whether rebooting the franchise instead of continuing where Black Isle left off was appropriate, but the Fallout you knew no longer exists and will never return. The same honestly applies to the lore that came before Fallout 3 as any of it is subject to being retconned (assuming it's even canon in their eyes) by BGS at any time since they own the rights to the franchise.

All I know is I love Fallout for what it is now. Fallout, as a result, is far bigger and far more popular than it could have ever been with Black Isle. That is the reality and I'm personally glad BGS gave Fallout the "TES makeover." It has made it a far better franchise in my opinion.

I was trying to make a point that Fallout is not just a Name, or some Asset that you buy, it has some history and responsibilities that come with it. So, no, you can't make "whatever you want" with it and then expect people to ignore that.

And if that is how you look at it, you have already lost. I see nothing immoral about accepting change and disappointments and respecting those who feel or think differently than you. In fact, it's the moral thing to do IMHO

BTW, your link is broken.

Except, that's exactly what it is and what happened. Fallout as a franchise was on the edge of collapse and was up for auction. Bethesda Softworks swept in and decided to revitalize what was otherwise a dead series. Whatever BGS decided to do with it wasn't germane because what you knew was already dead. You may not like hearing the cold, harsh truth, but this is a capitalist society and it is how businesses are run.

Fallout was a cult classic and a niche on PC before BGS rebooted the series. Now they have turned it into a AAA gaming juggernaut that everybody knows across all platforms. BGS is in no way beholden to the past (even though many of them were Fallout fans before Fallout 3). Their only obligation is to make the kind of game they want to play, which is exactly what they did.

You are disgruntled because you liked the old Fallout games more. I'm empathetic to your predicament, but that's life. Those games still exist and you can still play them. You can't and shouldn't expect an entirely new publisher and an entirely new developer to try and continue the traditions of the past. Fallout isn't Star Wars. It is nowhere as iconic nor has it had that kind of impact on pop culture. If Disney tried to reboot Star Wars, you better believe there would be hell to pay.

I Agree with this statement. The series was a abuse bethesda assimilated and then breathed mew life into it. Changed for the better or worse is open to debate dome vehemently oppose what the franchise has become. Contrary to what they think however the series has transformed into a triple A masterpiece that appeals to the masses.

I would say that everyone would be up in arms about a Star Wars reboot. So this is one reason we are getting a new trilogy to expand the universe. Then there is the added bonus of revenue from a pop culture icon allocating money and funds into Disney's pocket. The fruition of their purchase of the IP will hit it's first major stride with The Force Awakens.