elder scrolls are themeparks, maybe very loosely, but they are in no way sandbox. a sandbox game would just drop you and say "kk, have fun" and give you no direction to go in.

examples of sandbox games being minecraft, mount and blade, EVE.

I couldn't kill children. I couldn't break barrels with my axe.

This could have been a open world with cyrodiil being the only place with pvp. Why not a open with with tons of pve stuff???

No sorry you didn't have total control in the base game, thats the point. You can't use player made mods to prove your point because you can't mod the game world like that in ESO, so can only use fair comparisons. If you have to use mods to make the game a sandbox than you can't really call the game itself as made a sandbox.

You are confusing Linear with Themepark. A Themepark game does not have to be Linear.

For example, Skyrim is Themepark because everything you can experience in Skyrim was pre-designed that way by Developers, but its also Non-Linear because you can go where-ever you want first and experience a lot of the pre-made content in the way you want it.

Eve has an elaborate set of Quests, raids, PVP areas, and NPC driven content. You still call it a sandbox... And last time I checked on every TES game you escape from or are released from a prison scenario and left to your own devices from there.

I assume you are referring to skyrim and if so both things could be done with mods on PC. The part of the quote you cut out.

why are you arguing about sandbox or theme park....we've got cyrodiil.

http://internetgames.about.com/od/mmorpgs/a/Mmorpgs-Sandbox-Vs-Themepark.htm

Pretty good definitions for both sandbox and themeparks.

Previous TES games were themeparks through and through. I think that no single player sandbox can never exist.

bring an umbrella if you come to this thread....its gone all water sports^^

Because reasons.

But yeah Cyrodiil is basically one big sandbox with some nice toys to play with inside.

what are you talking about? So if players release the content it doesn't count but if the devs release it then it counts and becomes a sandbox? Not only did you have TOTAL control, but on pc it was so much control they even left console access open. Sky is the limit there.

you guys act like gary's mod or minecraft are the only definition of sandbox. I would argue that a sandbox game simply means the players drive the games content vs a theme park where the devs make all of it.

You should all do yourselves a favor and listen to some of Smedley's podcasts and read his papers about this topic and the industry at large.

I'd say mainly because the vast majority of mmo gamers no longer have the stomach for sandbox games like Lineage or Dekaron, mainly because games like WoW came along and they discovered the Care Bear market was more lucrative.

Which is why instead of an entire land of PvP enabled Leveling, you only get a slice of land called a warzone.

True Sandbox games might be a thing of the past simply because mmo's have too many different styles of gamer to cater too.

There is no spoon.

Which is bad news for ice cream lovers.

Back to serious. Sandboxes and story driven content don't play well together. ESO shares one thing with it's single-player brethren: quests are driven by scripts.

Considering how many complaints there are about quests not spawning, try and imagine what it would be like if the game was a sandbox with true persistence. You can't have your cake and eat it, sadly.

I love sandbox games, and a part of me hoped there'd be a little bit of sandbox-ness to ESO, but on reflection, it's probably a good thing there isn't.

the quests are completely unnecessary, and all PVE is there specifically for people who want it, its a very small chunk of the game.

it has a player driven economy, almost all items are created by players or player run corporations, some of the most powerful factions in the game are player run, and there are no "PVP" areas, you can PVP anyway, its just that if you murder someone in high sec the police come down on you. you're dropped into the game and left to do whatever you want. the story missions are there for anyone that wants them but not many people do them.

TES is completely based on quests. I mean can I start my own faction and start taking territory? can I effect the economy? theres really no sandbox features at all, its just an open world game.

Im not dissing it, I actually think EVE is terribly boring, but thats my point. most sandbox games are incredibly boring, and im glad ESO isn't one.

From your link-

• Perhaps the most central feature is the ability to have a lasting impact on the game world, whether by building structures, controlling territory, or other means.

mods don't make a game sandbox. a game is what a game is when released, it wasn't released a sandbox, so its not a sandbox.

you could never control territory in TES, and the only buildings you could make were very similar houses in 3 different locations, which hardly makes it a sandbox game.

like I said if you want an example of a single player sandbox game, you're looking at mount and blade, which is nothing like TES.

and only way to enact that change is by doing the themepark based quests....

Actually the fact that you can mod the game does not mean it is a sandbox. The modding is done out of game. For it to be sandbox, you would literally have to do it in game. TES games are themepark because you can't actually change anything the devs don't already allow you to change without modifying the gamefiles themselves.

There are tons of NPC stores in EVE man. I dont think you played it for very long. And again TES meets your comparison perfectly. You can either do the quests or just go dungeon diving. No one makes you talk to the NPCs. You can just kill most of them if you want. I am not sure how you played the TES lines and decided to do so on rails like you are describing.

Its a sandbox without mods. wow this is the worst argument of all time. The way you played TES series is so radically different than how i did I do not think it will be possible to convince you.

If you just go off and roam (something I can do in this TESO), nothing changes in TES. You have to actually complete quests or goal for things to change (thus themepark). EvE is sandbox, mainly because of the low sec and null sec where things change constantly due to player activity.

so when you finished the dragon attack/jail break in skyrim you were then FORCED to go get a quest at a specific place or at a specific time? You were UNABLE to decide where you went and what you did when you got there? What game were you playing?

Lets see what the megaservers will do in the "naming a character"... lol As far as I can see, they have 1 server for eu and 1 server for US... even worse than swtor naming.

Only those who pre-order the game are lucky to get the names they want.

I hope zenimax wont delete our characters or names, because of their "megaservers:.

At least, let us have a surname or a title and our small name after...

You are confusing free roam with sandbox. Sandbox, you can literally change the game. Free roam you can simply go where you want.