So be it, then.





First off, both terms are valid. Whichever came first is irrelevant. What a pointless thing to nitpick about. Secondly, I'm merely asking people to back up their claims. Saying that Bethesda rehashed something without any proof would just be whiny [censored].






Right, because asking people to provide proof for their claims makes me a "fan boy."

Christ, the people on this forum are pathetic.

Ah. So you believe that the reason they are successful is that most consumers are too stupid to realize they put out crap products (since you and others believe this is a common occurence for Bethesda) and continue to buy their products inspite of "game-breaking" bugs. Understood.

I choose to believe that their success is based on loyal and satisfied base customers (obtained by years of releasing quality products), good advertising to encourage new fans, and absurd amounts of content in their games at a time when most companies rehash previous year's title. I also believe that many of the complaints flat-out ignore problems with incompatible hardware and blame it on the game itself. Furthermore, I believe that the most hardcoe complainers (not those that criticise and offer solutions) have an over-inflated view of how many people are actually unhappy with the game.

So you are bashing someone for... having standards?

Wow... the really devoted fans are out in force today!

P.S. you just basically told him that Skyrim is the best game if you have no standards. Dont mean to be an ass, but that litteraly means "Skyrim is not the best game".

EDIT:
When something is common knowledge, and you dont believe it, then its your burden to do your research. If I told you the sun was hot and the sea was wet, would you ask me for my sources?

Amen. There's a lot of ways to do quests, but most of it end up in a dungeon somewhere that's pretty linear in itself, where you leave bodies in your wake. Although I find combat is better than it was in Oblivion, it gets old pretty quick without some sort of variation. World is filled with hostiles, only option is to fight. And the neutrals you do encounter are as bland and featureless as the wildlife roaming around you may as well not bother talking to them.

There are plenty of people who can't even finish the Main Quest of this game, not to mention the number of players who have run into lockup or performance issues which have benched them.

That's not called having a high standard, that's called having a standard.

Woah, just woah. You must have really been keeping track of me to know I am bashing this game all the day and all night. Very creepy

You want proof? How about you buy the game and play it so you can see it for yourself. And what is this about the new generation? You consider yourself the ''old'' generation? You certainly don't give me the impression you even graduated from high school.

+1 really suprised by it -)
The engine is actually 12 years old.... :wavey:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamebryo

So many things to address so let's get started.



Assuming that they were not adding new content your argument would be valid. They are going to allocate so many resources to build the engine or tweak what is there depending on what the case is but ultimately most resources are going to go towards creating the new content for the new game. The size of the company doesn't mean nearly as much as you might think, there is still going to be a ceiling for resources (artists, programmers, etc.) and you can't just throw more money or programmers at a problem to fix it. That can actually make the problem worse considering all these programmers have different styles and different understandings of how the internals work.




Fair enough, I agree but I personally don't have the problem with quality or quantity of the game's content. Yes, there is a lot of similarity but that doesn't bother me given that I can choose to opt out of as much of the content as I want.



I wouldn't say some 200+ dungeons is exactly empty. You can't walk more than 100 yards without something popping up on screen. You certainly can argue it's not diverse but empty is not the word I would choose to describe it.

Wow, just... wow. I don't even know where to begin, so I'm just going to call you absurd.

EDIT: Very rarely does stupidity leave me speechless. Alright, I'm going to try.

First off, I'm not the one making the claim, here. The claim is that Bethesda lied about using a new engine. The fact that it appears to function similarly is irrelevant.

Second off, saying that the old engine has been rehashed despite Bethesda saying otherwise is "common knowledge," ESPECIALLY akin to "water being wet" is just [censored].

You, sir, are an unprecedented class of moron.

Bethesda's one of the few companies that let you completely molest their game and encourage it at the same time. People making these threads don't deserve the Creation Kit.

The man asked for proof, which is not unreasonable I might add, and no one provided it until much later. The critics on these forums stop at nothing to remind you of the vocal majority (see: people who like this game), all while having to sift through the endless drivel of whining about things that really aren't that bad, to post.

As for your Ad Hominem, hey if the anonymity of the internet makes you feel better, it does that for all of us. But not because we have to act old. I take it from your instant defensive posture that you are part of the new generation. You see, I wouldn't come on a forum for a game I don't own just to get attention, that's something the new kids do. So, right back at you with the totally original "prove you're not eight years old" bit that one sees over and over on internet forums.

I agree. Skyrim is not GOTY worthy. It's 2011, and nearly every other game just has a couple minor bugs.
This has gamebreaking bugs on PS3, and tons of frustrating quests bugs on every system.

After 5 or so years since Oblivion, one would think they've done a better job, and in some ways, they have. We don't continue to buy their products knowing full well about the problems, we didn't know about the problems until we bought the products. Do you understand? It's not like a demo was released for us to test the game, was there? It doesn't help that review sites received an optimal version of the game too. I bought it for the pc, I've never had a TES game or any game for that matter crash so much randomly on me. Custom built rig that can play new games on highest settings, no problems whatsoever with regards to Skyrim's framerate, though it does stutter once in a while. That's from how the game was coded, it's cpu intensive after all.I know my problems with the game is not exclusive to my machine. Here's the mod that fixed one of my biggest problems with the game when it came out, and still is to this day. http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1013 I'm just one of the 500,000 or so downloads for that. Even half that number is a lot of people who share the same problems I have.

Hearing [censored] praise the game blindly and loyally like you put it sends the wrong message to the mass who are looking for an honest opinion on the game.

Edit:wrong link

I hate when people complain about the PS3 version and generalize Skyrim to svck. If you got Skyrim on PC, I think you'd agree that it deserves GOTY.

Unless you include id, Epic or Valve of course. Or who created Torchlight? Yeah, them too.

Oh and that game some people played call .... um ... Civ IV? Yeah, that one too.

Puh - lease. Modding on PC games is in no way a rarity.

Lmfao at levenon. You go ahead an beleive it's a new engine. The engine is largely based on what Bethesda has been putting out this gen. You seriously can't tell? Lol athe game programming comment. It's naive to paint it as some form of mysticism. We played their games they are all very much alike and have very similar mechanics. Skyrim is to oblivion what madden 12 is to madden 11. It reuses alot of the old.

Did I say the only company? Nope. Learn to read.

Well said. Unfortunately, gaming awards, like just about every other self-congratulatory award, tend to go with whatever is "it" at the moment. People wanted Skyrim and they got it, so it must be "best" while others that may deserve it more get thrown to the wayside - much like music, movies, and everything else our culture consumes. Seems to be all about numbers and hype, not quality.

No, you said "one of the few" - as in it is some kind of rarity. Which it is not, and certainly doesn't forsake the kind of lousy QA the game was delivered in ... which is the topic at hand. So go enjoy Creation Kit, but realize it in no way makes Bethesda special.

his point is that being able to mod isn't exactly an innovation

Bethesda does not make great games. Hell Indi devs like with mount and balde have solved issues that Beth never will.

What they are good at is making the core that modders make great.

perfect. That is all

GotY is an utterly meaningless award. Being the best of a set of (not neccesarily good themselves) games doesn't have to make it objectively a good game.

Modding is rare when you compare all the games that won't let you mod to the games that do.



Not an innovation, but the only openworld RPG that let's you mod it completely into an entirely new game.

Yet again, Woah

Why are you blowing this way out of proportion? Anonymity? Instant defensive? Getting attention? New kids?

And...Right back at you?

I am really scratching my head here. I am not even going to respond to this outburst of immaturity or sheer stupidity, whatever it is.

Anyway, the proof is there for all to see. He said it's a new engine, I said it that it isn't. The proof is out there and I didn't even need it to confirm this. I played the game and said it is so. Will you or can you say something relevant now?