1. I'm done after this post, I've got 75 billion people replying and I can't keep up.

2. Listen, it's not a dumbed down, nor a casual game. That's the end of it. A casual gamer is someone who plays iPhone games on their lunch break. If a non-gamer buys Skyrim, comes home and plays it 8 hours a day for a month, they are NOT a casual gamer anymore.

3. I've been playing video games since I was a little kid, and now I'm 26. I know the difference.

4. "Casual games can have any type of gameplay, and fit in any genre. They are typically distinguished by their simple rules and lack of commitment required in contrast to more complex hardcoe games.[1] They require no long-term time commitment or special skills to play, and there are comparatively low production and distribution costs for the producer."

5. ""Casual gamer" is a loosely defined term used to describe a type of video game player whose time or interest in playing games is limited compared with a hardcoe gamer. Casual gamers can conceivably consist of any people who show more than a passing interest in video games, therefore it is difficult to categorize them as a group. For this reason, games which attempt to appeal to the casual player tend to strive for simple rules and ease of game play, the goal being to present a pick-up-and-play experience that people from almost any age group or skill level could enjoy.[6][24][25][26][27] Casual gaming demographics also vary greatly from those of traditional computer games, as the typical casual gamer is older and more predominantly female,[28][29] with over 74% of those purchasing casual games being women.[30]" It took my girlfriend weeks to learn how to use a controller to play Portal, you can't just pick up and competently play Skyrim. Even a kid who plays Madden religiously isn't a casual gamer, but he isn't a hardcoe gamer either.

6. Wanting things to be more complex just so you can say it doesn't appeal to a mass market is a weird mindset to me. Removing greaves doesn't even affect much for example.

7. Frankly I'd rather games not go back to turn based, dice-roll combat. It worked then, still works for some but it'd be boring as hell in Skyrim.

See, I take issue with this. A lot of people usually means a bunch of over opinionated people on the internet, which is no way a lot nor representative of the community at large.

People say Civilization 5 was dumbed down for example, but you know what? I play Civilization 2 and 3 still. If Skyrim's changes bother you, play the older games, message Bethesda and stop clogging the forums with nonstop gripes.

You can't handle change, that's fine. We enjoy the game as it is, and we're tired of seeing these threads.

See my points on some previous page. "Dumbed Down" is a term. It means simplified. But, you already know this and want to argue semantics to whats effectively become a slang term now, right?

Ok this is the end tand it is dumbed down. Its casual by Morrowinds and Daggerfalls standards.

Congratulations are in order for playing so long. I am twenty two been playing since I was two. You think your opinion is fact it is not.

Just like a persons lack of commitment to a game like Skyrim and even Diablo?

Here you back back to your opinion thinking its fact.

Anybody can pick up and try anything casually... So somebody can play Madden all the time and nether be casual or hardcoe, you know football is very in depth right?

Removing things effect choice, and in this game choice matters, at least for those that have an in depth knowledge about RPGs and for those that choose to roleplay while they play their game.

Again I never said I want dive rolls in Skyrim, there is D & D for that friend.

See my points on some previous page. "Dumbed Down" is a term. It means simplified. But, you already know this and want to argue semantics to whats effectively become a slang term now, right?

Dumbed down takes meaning from the word dumb. Its condescending, not a term. Simplified is more politically correct. I'm not saying any of us take offense, we're just sick of seeing the same, redundant cry posts. We get it. You don't like the game. That's fine. Stop complaining about it, or consolidate your complaints and rants via search function. Some of us would actually like some "General Skyrim Discussion."

No I only read the first page, and if the term is vauge then perhaps it shouldn't be used, less it cause confusion.

But if thats what "Dumbed down" means, then it's an inventive way too criticize an improvement.

You keep bring up things that have nothing to do with the simplification that went on.

-The GUILD quest lines are shorter. There are more quests over all, but that has nothing to do with complexity or simplification. You'd have to look at each quest subjectively and compare them to previous games quests, which is obvious impractical.

-Having more or less armor sets has nothing to do with simplification either, what does however is less slots, which has been a recurring theme since after Morrowind. Now they don't even degrade, which is simplified.

Your getting too hung up on the word. Its blatantly obvious to people that have played all the games and have seen everything Skyrim has to offer, that its been simplified in a lot more ways than its been 'made more complex'.



But how does having something else in the other hand add depth, complexity? It has nothing to do with simplifications that we are talking about.

I actually find it more in-depth than Oblivion.

Beth reads the forums, Ill critique as long as I want. It has nothing to do with change. Its not wanting my hand held even more than it was in Oblivion. Its wanting mechanics that enriched our experience back. Nothing to do with the whole "change" fallacy that's been spurted around here since pre Oblivion release.

Just because other people say that games are getting dumbed-down doesn't make it true. If five people say it, then ten people start to say it, then twenty eventually it just becomes this mantra people keep babbling about like they figured it out in the first place.I think they took out spell creation and a few other things that may have been cool yet may not have been entirely useful in the end. That's it. I mean, how many spells outside of a hurricane spell can you make that are not already in the game? Drain humor spell? Hey let's make an overpowered spell that kills everything within oh, 50 yards that'll be fun and over-powered. yay. kill kill kill [censored] role playing kill.

Yeah, no "casual" plays this game. Go away.

What the hell? Most of this post doesn't even make sense.

You've been playing games since two? Playing with blocks maybe :rolleyes:

You're joking, right?

No, and welcome to the party. You're late. Done discussing it, go look up the definition of a casual game and gamer.

No, and welcome to the party. You're late. Done discussing it, go look up the definition of a casual game and gamer.

You know that this is a game that you can do what ever you want to do...

1) Do you want to read the story book that gave you the quest? No... You want to follow the magical arrow... Then you will be back at the forums and complain about it...
2) Are you trying to find those AMAZING quests that doesn't have magical arrows? No... too lazy, then be back at the forums and complain about skyrim "holding hands"


That's why I don't like this damn arrow... It's not good to trust it, I'm telling ya!


It only hold your hands if you really need it to hold your hands...

What the hell? Most of this post doesn't even make sense.

You've been playing games since two? Playing with blocks maybe :rolleyes:

Arcade. Doesn't take a brain to go through it, and it served as a very good foundation for gaming.

(At least that's how I've been gaming since i was two)

Then go consolidate your complaints, you and 50 others make complaint threads daily and it's obnoxious. Your hand really isn't being held too often, you can say Clairvoyance does but it's an option and it's actually helped me when the quest markers got screwed up and told me to go through 3 different doors for the same thing.

Oh and you do realize M'aiq's comments mock you folks? Stop clogging the forum with the same complaints over and over.

Were you standing on a ladder hitting random buttons? You usually just start speaking at 2, I'm calling BS.

Maybe you got tied up in all of your conversations. Reread your post I guess I should numbered them and your to keep everything in order for you.

Yes I remember playing Sim City on the Super NES when I was two and three its possible to remember back that far you know. Its only brief periods of memory. I sit in my parents lap and played Sim City I of course had help. Its proven in psychology you can remember that far back in your childhood. Believe it or not.

I'm no orphan you see. Parents weren't completely unaware of gaming at that time.

You're right, a few people saying games are getting dumbed-down doesn't make it true. WHAT does make it true though is when the people who argue against those few who are saying it regurgitate the same tired rhetoric of "that's not dumbed down, that's streamlining or simplified" and refusing to acknowledge valids points because of how the words make them feel. THAT's what makes it true.

Seriously people, study some rhetoric, the media is bombarding you with it constantly.

That post made no sense, you were typing gibberish.

I'm sure you do. And I was playing Doom at 2 :foodndrink: