because all games always gets dumbed down no matter what is added or removed in the game, skyrim could have added 300 skills it would still be dumbed down and no matter what any industry does they dont care about the content of the game they just want to steal as much money from people as they can, so they dumb down the game so they can steal more money from more people through false advertising and unfulfilled lies, because as we all know any company of any kind is a spawn of satin

How do you know the cutting features was to appeal to a bigger crowd? And furthermore, if you run a business and expect to make money appealing anything to a bigger crowd is what you have to do.

If you owned a record shop, would you be happier with 10 hardcoe customers, or 10,000 customers? Exactly.

Casual = Plays iPhone games.

That's not what I said, you need to read properly.

Yep this, in my opinion I can actually spend more time traveling and focusing on the story / goals behind my character rather than getting a headache over staring at numbers on the screen, mind you its not the math that's giving me the head aches but the looking at the small and numerous numbers on screen. Now its read, pick then back to my world of Lizard VS Giant lizard with wings. I used to play WoW but eventually stopped because I realized I was sitting in my chair spending at least several hours comparing numbers from specialization trees and armor stats, really irritating.

You're wrong. You even told yourself so.

I really don't think this game is any more "dumbed down" then Morroeind is. There was a time when RPGs were just their PnP counterparts on the computer; this was essentially Daggerfall; but that time is gone. The attribute system was crap anyway. The system in Daggerfall was much better and more in depth, but I don't see it making a comeback.

Shall we start with observations? OK

Auto Health regen... Its auto. Hell, Morrowind didnt even have auto Magicka regen. Imagine that Atronach Birthstone Oblivion lovers. This is made even more redundant since there's still traditional wait healing.

No more degradation at all. One less thing to worry about.

The whole attribute system simplification.

Removing Spell Creation because it was "too spread sheety". Whether that why they really got rid of it, or not, is beside the point. The fact that Todd would even say that about the mechanic is ridiculous.

The whole PR campaign by Beth almost.

More cut features and mechanics.

A lot of the niche feature and mechanics even got gimped, like Vampires not even taking sun damage anymore.

That's just off the top of my head.

removing things and adding others isnt simplifying, its changing...i like the added smithing but didnt like the spell making removal and the destruction weakness.

skyrim is sweet overall even with all the bugs and disagreeable things so stop whining or stop playing

Where? I see nothing of the sort

yeh they did all that to appeal to casual gamers, because some people cannot handle the complexity of spell making, they can only handle smiting and alchemy

and armor degradation made the game so much more complicated, I mean you had to open up a whole new menu with the hammer and repeatedly hit your weapons, this obviously isnt for casual gamers

Because the majority of people do not like extremely involved games. They want something not as in depth and user friendly. The second part of your first statement is basically defending Bethesda about cutting features: and you say its not "dumbed down" but you defend it saying that if I ran a business I would want to make more money appealing to a bigger crowd that is what I would have to do. That is not the case with ES anymore they are mainstream they no longer have to axe features, now that people have been introduced to the series they can start adding content instead of removing content. More is more, less is less. I choose to have more not less.

If I owned a record shop. After I got a solid fan base I would still do a lot of hardcoe things that interest the fan base. I would not cut good labels because I would be thinking long term. Exactly...

That is your opinion on what casual is and I have my own opinion about it.

You question Todd PR, not me. And Smithing isn't complex at all. Your even told what all you need. Alchemy is pretty much the same as in Oblivion with a few game changers in some of the Perks. And is nothing compared to how it was in Morrowind.

If it's so dumbed down and simple, why are there threads where people can't even find the house they bought, or pleading for help?

Appealing to a larger base does not equal dumbing down. If they removed mana and you shot fireballs like an M16 in COD, I'd agree. But you don't. You lost attributes, whoop-dee-doo.

Let's make all games go back to pen and paper and dice rolls if that's what you think a game has to be to not be casual :shakehead:

No simplification = no casuals
No casuals = no money
No money = no Elder Scrolls
No Elder Scrolls = :sadvaultboy:

It's the price we have to pay.

Dumbed down? Hardly. Please make some valid points for such an accusation.

Skyrim's Features:
-Combat Improvements
-More dynamic Character building
-You FEEL like the Dragonborn. You're powerful.
-Amazing Environment very Immersing. Amazing artists.
-Companions (multiple, even a dog)
-More Involved Dungeons (traps puzzles)
-Dragons anyone?
-More side quests (MORE DEPTH)
-Dual Wielding????? Spells AND weapons??

I can't really think of them all. Calling the game dumbed down is hardly accurate. Spell making was an easy way out of combining ALL of your abilities to make you heroic. If anything they took out some simplicity. Now I would poison a sword with a debuff, and cast away. Thats more complicated than casting a Fire damage + debuff fire + debuff magic resist(in one spell). Sure, it may force you down a play style that isn't single minded, but then that just proves my point, and I'm sure they had long discussions about whether they felt this was a step they wanted to take Skyrim in. It wasn't to make it easier. That's counterintuitive. You have to take everything into consideration. Sure the crafting system can imbalance your character, but what did you think was going to happen adding all those +20% one handed damage enchants to your armor.

I honestly can't see why people say its dumbed down. Its DIFFERENT not "dumbed down."

I feel like negativity in forums is contagious. Once it starts, its just this downward spiral of people who almost feel sorry for themselves because they think something is missing when in reality, most of us are quite happy with the progress Bethesda made with this game. The game is amazing. Hands down. If you can't appreciate the effort and think there was some secret agenda they were following, you probably have issues with paranoia and insecurity. No offense, just find a different game. Not all of us want to log into the forums everyday to see the new whiny, cry, cry post up about how this is overpowered, or this is dumbed down.

Sure, there are flaws here and there, somethings they could have done better yes, but please, point me to the game and company that did EVERYTHING perfect! Please. Its impossible to please everyone, so nothing can be perfect. If this isn't your cup of tea, I'm sure Bethesda will apologize and wish you the best.

I feel like the year I finished high school, forums I visit are no longer good discussion. All I see is crying, e-ego contests, and trolling. I know these things have been around for a while, but I feel they made a rapid incline here in the past 4-5 years. These titles of casual, or hardcoe both describe one thing. A gamer. Bethesda makes these games, for gamers. They aren't sitting in their office going.. hmmmm ya know... we should umm... hit the casuals this year guys.... i'm uhh...i'm really feeling good about those casuals...lol.

So please, if you don't like the game or it's not hard enough for you, there's other games out there. Sure, it's ok to express opinions, but lets STOP creating a new thread every time someone takes your sweetroll. If i get ripped up for asking a redundant question with people saying, use the search function, then I'll pass this same knowledge to the whiners. Please, use the search function and fine a cry post with a similar subject.

BLEH! That's my cry cry post. So sick of trying to find interesting posts from the actual Skyrim players in the cesspool of tears.

yes lets not forgot how complex it was in morrowind where you could fail then you had to reload a previous save until you succeeded, that added so much depth to the game

Half of those are opinions "I FEEL like the Dragonborn"? Well, I Felt like the Nerevarine. Whats that got to do with simplifications? Most of the rest were already in previous ES games. For actual valid points, look back a page.

With that one quote you asked how the other guy could know something....then go on to describe how knowing it is common sense.

I have run out of keyboards to argue with ya'lls. Gods damn it.

Which can be done in any 'chance' situation in any ES. The only Beth-type, that curbed this was Gambling in NV. Since NV was basically a Bethtype RPG game, just made by Obsidian.

You guys are the hipsters of gaming. "This game sold a lot, it's for casuals I no longer like it."

Here's a tip. Sell Skyrim, go play Morrowind and leave the forums. The end. Why are you here to nonstop [censored]?

Sometimes these threads seem dumbed down.

The way he said it, it seems his nephew isn't much of a gamer. Yes, a nine year old can be a gamer. That doesn't mean that his nephew is a gamer. My dad isn't a gamer, and he still plays video games sometimes.

What is YOUR indepth, detailed definition of a "casual gamer?"

Poor sense of direction the towns are pathetically small , I never once said the world itself is dumbed down, the game world is rich indeed. Lets not pretend I did. The mechanics are.

Attributes yes are gone. A major feature of an RPG.

The magic system butchered, spells removed , spell creation gone.

Fewer quest lines, way shorter quest lines.

Why would adding mechanics, (not dice rolls as you say :rolleyes: ) from the grandfather of RPGs be a bad thing. That would add unmatched freedom of choice and choice is what this series is all about. Also again you have your own opinion about what is casual and I have mine. One cannot argue an opinion.

We're merely here to disagree with thy cause, good ser, for it is wrong! Canst thou see it?