I will stand right next to you when it comes to stating flaws in Oblivion. My main point is that it doesn't help any actual conversation to give shallow representations and then base your argument off of that (I realize it's not always that way, but nobodies helping to make it look any other way).

If there's going to be a discussion give a real representation of what your talking about.

I've done it before. You saw me say it in the mods section, did you not?

Truth be told, though, about 70% of Vvardenfell is ash-covered rock. The mushroom trees and architecture are more alien, but Morrowind is not more varied. I did not skewer numbers, ever. When did I do this? Those are the different regions.

Fair enough, anywho we're pretty off topic here. So Seti I'd love to hear your excellent counter to my Oblivion bash, but it's a bit off base in this thread, so perhaps we should get back to talking about every bodies favorite province, Skyrim, and everybodies favorite alcoholics, the Nords.

Seti, 70% is exactly what I'm talking about, a skewered number. You counted regions based on name, not environment too. (For both games. If you count unique environments, Morrowind comes out on top) Yeah Vvardenfell was mostly ash, doesn't change the fact it had more unique environments. My point of this post is not of size, but of number. If you pick up what I'm putting down.

Oh and here's a point for thought as well, Vvardenfell was never described as not being an ashy wasteland, was it? Can't say the same for Cyrodiil and it's forests. :wink_smile:

Vvardenfell being a wasteland is part of the atmosphere, part of showing off an alien culture. Part of showing off the desperation of the people there, and the stagnation of the province as a whole. I'm not saying I like walking in that [censored]-hole, but I know why they did it the way they did.

Now in all honesty, the jungle of Cyrodiil would have not lent well to the story of Oblivion, but perhaps it would have led well to a more politically charged storyline, but that is a whole different monster.

It's like watching kids argue over who's stick looks more like a sword.



EDIT: Disciple!

My "Shallow" representation really summed up the game. But if you want me to go into further detail, fine.

In Oblivion, stand outside any cave. Go ahead, pick any cave in the game.

Now think to yourself. What's inside? It will either fall under 3 categories:

-Bandits
-Undead
-Creatures

Let's look at the first one, Bandits. You know that walking in, you'll find the generic bandits littered in the cave for no real significant reason other than to stand around and talk about how mudcrabs are nasty. They'll all be wearing the same fur (Or glass, if you're lucky, because bandits can easily get their hands on priceless mastercraft glass armor) armor that every other bandit has. Then if you're lucky, there will be a bandit leader at the end with better stuff. Yippie, you've just summed up most of the caves in Cyrodil.

Maybe it's an Undead cave. You stumbled across the generic cave that contains either Skeletons and Ghosts, Or for higher levels, Skeleton Champions and Wraiths, maybe a few zombies (Or liches, if you're high level), and that's really it. The most interesting thing you'll find are a few gems and getting a good show from the skeleton ragdoll effects on some traps.

Maybe it's a cave with Creatures. Theres some Rats and Mudcrabs, Trolls and Lions if you're high level, and maybe a few barrels with useless items inside.

Or you'll get lucky, and manage to find the one or two slightly interesting caves (Argonian cult, pale pass), then your image of every other cave will dwindle even more.

Sometimes, bethesda gets "Creative" and slaps Nocturnal's Eye at the end of one, or maybe the body of some guy who was missing. The rest of it was just the same thing in any other cave.

Satisfied?

Doesn't most of Skyrim just have a high altitude? I thought that it was mostly high mountains. Those mountains being high there is snow on the top. There are countless vallys and rivers in Skyrim that do not have snow around them. Most of the cities are built in vallys too.

Can we talk about freaking Nords and glaciers and crap now please?

Thank you Mankar, at least I got the impression from the map of Skyrim that the high altitudes are in the south, on the border to Cyrodiil.

Lol, the conversation wasn't about caves. I'm sort of compelled to agree, though, since I wasn't really fond of the caves in Oblivion. Those were one of the things that started to get stagnant to me, though you did forget Necromancer caves. I agree on the leveled loot, and armor on bandits, but I mean to be honest I didn't expect something amazing and individual every time I set foot in a cave. That wouldn't really make sense to me.


But, to be honest, this really isn't the place for this, and I'm sorry I've been a part of leading it off topic.

It's not just caves, it's the same for areas in the wilderness, ruins, etc. Those reasons alone are what made me stop playing Oblivion.

But anyway, on topic.

I'm not opposed to the idea of Skyrim (I love the idea of strolling across a snowy mountainside at night), I just really didn't understand why it was in such high praise.

What is in the minds of people as being an inescapable truth for a long time is what they become used to and want to embrace.

:mellow:

Pretty much. I would rather see Summerset personally, but whatevs.

Skyrim was trademarked in 2006. People got used to it and tried to imagine cool things about it after getting used to the idea. Now people want it because they've built up a unique image in their mind of it and they needed to accept that it is the most likely setting, so they did.

Summerset Isle has always been popular, though. Morrowind was originally supposed to take place in Summerset Isle under the name "Tribunal", Oblivion was speculated to take place in Summerset Isle until the truth became known, and Summerset Isle still seems to be what many people want to see.

Yet it's constantly avoided. Are they just afraid that they'll get it's image wrong, as noted in most books?

When I was first playing Oblivion and found out about provinces surrounding Cyrodiil I always imagined a game taking place in Skyrim. I've always been drawn to snowy scenery. But once I read more about the other provinces I really wanted to see those as well, mainly the Black Marsh, or somewhere like Elsweyr. To me I would be pretty much equally excited to see any of the provinces we haven't seen in the past two games.

Summerset Isle? I've heard "the technology isn't good enough to do it justice, yet" a lot, and people do seem to be very picky about provinces being as they were described, so that seems like a reasonable guess.

Oh yeah, we're totally lying to ourselves about Skyrim having the possibility of being cool. You know, because it's so obviously all snow and [censored] because of the LOD we saw of it in Oblivion. Sticking to the already slightly interesting provinces is pointless. So TESV is the Summerset Isles, okay. What about TESVI? VII? Eventually Skyrim will have to take to the stage, so why not now? Just because you don't find it as interesting as some of the other provinces at the moment, doesn't mean you'll feel the same when it's further developed by Bethesda. Which has already begun; I seem to remember a certain thread by MK which had some interesting snippets. Maybe you should give Skyrim more of a chance.

Great point right there. I always liked the idea of a game set in Skyrim but it wasn't until I learned about the trademark some time ago that it became the place I wanted to see the most. But what I've been sure to do is not think about what anything in the actual game would be like, so no matter what Bethesda's Skyrim looks like, I wont be disappointed.

Me? :huh: I didn't say anything about my personal feelings about it. I'd like to see Skyrim. Falmer interest me. I honestly don't really care where it is, though, and I happen to like Cyrodiil as portrayed in Oblivion. :stare:

I'm fine with whatever Bethesda decides to use and I'm not expecting anything from any province, except some references to Falmer in Skyrim, and if that doesn't happen, I'll still like it. I don't care if they turn Skyrim into a sandy desert. I'm curious to see what Bethesda does and I don't have any expectations. I would consider myself a die-hard Elder Scrolls fan, no matter what happens and no matter what the next province looks like. :shrug:

I feel like Skyrim (if it is Skyrim) would resemble something like the Alps. Its a beautiful landscape, and much more diverse then one thinks. In a days hike I've gone from spring green pines, to green fields dotted with flowers, to craggy spires bashed by the wind, to snow peaked mountain tops. While I don't think this is what Skyrim will resemble, It just shows that even in nature an area can be varying. And Bethesda will not leave it at whats realistic.

Fair enough. Mistook your post for (another) dig at Skyrim. It's nice to see people coming round to the idea. Though, maybe the belief that it's all rather boring will make Bethesda work doubly hard to make it not so

:thumbsup:

I know people say that Skyrim does not have to look like Norway or anything but has anyone here been to Iceland? Damn, if Skyrim looks like Iceland I will be the happiest person in the world. Iceland has the nicest landscape I have ever seen.
http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/9706/018iceland.jpg
http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/efa_10_06/07_ff.jpg
http://www.phototravels.net/iceland/iceland/photo-iceland-d-001.3.jpg
http://www.equidblog.com/uploads/image/Northern%20lights%20Iceland.jpg
http://www.snowtao.com/cruise/Jewel2010/art/iceland-1.jpg

As long as the hot springs don't have Imperials swimming around in them like in that picture. :spotted owl:

But yeah, honestly if Skyrim is as beautiful and has as many varied landscapes as Iceland or Alaska I'll be very happy.

I personally don't care what the next province is so long as they do it justice and keep it fairly close to the lore. After playing the FO3 expansion, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7S3e9ZmhFM&feature=related, I've gotten pretty excited to see what they do with some of the mountain regions of Skyrim, and I'm curious how it will blend with other regions of the province (assuming the mountain regions are implemented similarly). In order to do the entire region of Skyrim justice, however, they definitely need to expand the map. I'm really hoping that my character won't be able to traverse from one side of the map to the other in less than a few days in-game. I realize that may be wishful thinking, though.