Well regardless of what I think, it has no bearing on what is actually going to happen. I didn't say you we're lying about that, I just said I've yet to see them say that. If you have any sources, by all means link me to them so I can be caught up to with the knowledge that you have.

I also seem to remember Todd saying that the people on the forums make up a minority of Elder Scrolls fans, though I do realize that doesn't mean he's going to ignore us, we're not the only people they are making the game for.

And I still stand by my statement of "some". Just because there are people making "Why Oblivion is worse than Morrowind" threads and arguments doesn't mean they speak for everybody on these boards.

He mentioned it in a podcast a few months back. I don't remember the name of it unfortunately. But we should probably stop arguing about it. More to the point, I don't think telling the people who think it's going to be all snow are going to care much about what Bethesda could do with that kind of setting. It's my opinion that if the people who think it's going to be one big frozen wasteland don't have enough imagination to think of what they could do with that themselves, they wont understand that it doesn't mean Bethesda is as uncreative as them. Highly judgmental of me but whatever. I think explaining that there will be more varied settings to it than just ice and snow is easier. :shrug:

Well, I suppose you could be right, it could just be futile. It was mostly just a suggestion because when I see a thread titled "Why Skyrim?" I just think it would be better to talk about the possibilities of the province, because to be honest I'm pretty excited to see what they do with it.

Just so that I get this out there. I don't think there's going to be all snow. I'm just looking at the lore and seeing a lot of mentioning of cold and snow in Skyrim. They even had races with a layer of ice over their skin, and they populated enough of it that they had to compete with the Nords.

:shrug:

But it also mentions that it isn't all snow, so obviously it won't be. Personally, I love all of the possibilities and mysterious qualities of snow and ice. Where there's permanent ice, there's a layer of history underneath that hasn't been unleashed for hundreds of years, if not decades. Picture being the first to crack a thin layer of ice and fall into the ONLY Falmer ruins, or mabye... the only city that still has them.

What lore twisting? Cyrodiil-as-jungle is only mentioned in one book that never appears in-game, and was only included with one of the spinoff games, not even a proper Elder Scrolls game. As far as I'm concerned, the PGE is non-canon. And even if you do accept it as canon, the rest of the Cyrodiil entry is such blatant propaganda (jewel-encrusted bridges large enough to hold entire villages, magical shrubbery containing the personalities of the former Emperors, etc.) that it's hard to take anything it says seriously. I enjoyed Cyrodiil as it was presented in Oblivion, it pretty much lived up exactly to what I expected and desired.

You expected and desired a bland meadow with wolves copied and pasted 500 times?

Nope. It sure is a good thing that that isn't what Oblivion was like at all. And it sure is easy to seem witty when you borrow all your best lines from Zero Punctuation.

Yeah, I wish it could've been more like a boring volcanic island with cliffracers copied and pasted 500 times... :rolleyes:

(for the record I enjoyed both Morrowind, Oblivion, and their environments)

Try 50,000 times.

(I agree with your other statement.)

Here here.

I don't recall the volcanic island being boring. Perhaps I'm just too easily amused. But wait, then why didn't Oblivion amuse me?

If you're the type of person who likes fighting the same 10 bandits in the same abandoned mine every cave you walk into, then I don't think I'll be buying you a cup of Flin. :foodndrink:

I was meeting your shallow representation of Oblivion with a shallow representation of Morrowind.

That's the sad part, I wasn't really being shallow. Oblivion really is repetitive, up to the point that it annoys me.

The only things I can really say I liked about Oblivion is the visual aspects, the AI scheduals, the combat system (Though it does need a little work), and that the game actually got "Hard"...but in the wrong way. (Leveled mobs :shakehead: )

Because anything less than a fantastic trip down the rabbit hole into lands never before imagined will not please you?

Also, that sure is different from fighting the same 10 bandits in every tomb on Vvardenfell.

What game did you buy? Cause I would really like to know so I can trade the crappy one I got in.



:rofl: That is a much bigger generalization than the other generalization provided I'm afraid. Morrowind had much more regional variety than Morrowind and only devoted Oblivion fans would disagree with that. Snow region, meadow region, tree region, swamp region. That's four. Ash Region, Scrub Plains, Ashlands, Grazelands, Swamp Land, Volcano, Rocky Coastal region, Green Isles region. That's eight. Which is twice as many as four.

Boy I remembered why I stopped coming here, some people should take their rose colored glasses off, it obstructs your view of the generic Middle Earth Forest. :shakehead:

I certainly do think of it as canon. And while the book may have been filled with propaganda, I don't know if I'd consider describing Cryodiil as endless jungle and rainforests when it's actually supposed to be mostly empty fields with a few dense forests and a lot of little forests very positive propaganda. In fact I'd say the Imperial who wrote it might want to have his head checked if he thought that was how people used propaganda.

Wow, thanks for doing that amazing math for me sir. I really don't care of the generalizations line up, the point is that it is an unfair generalization that does not need to be propagated as if it were a fact.

Mine wasn't meant to be taken seriously, but just to show how it doesn't really help any conversations to give shallow representations.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1110128-cyrodill-lore-really/

Mistaking jungle for meadows =/= propaganda.

So anyway, how about Skyrim? I heard those Nords make some good Mead.

And shadow, I don't consider fantasy forest as a shallow representation of what Oblivion was, thats deep anolysis. Well, not exactly deep because it didn't take me too long to come to that conclusion.

When people think of what civilizations live in the forest, they think civilized, orderly humans. Thats why Cyrodiil was changed to a forest, because of the Imperials.
Jungles are typically associated with beasts, which aren't Imperials.
When you think of who would live in snowy mountains, you'd think a tough, rugged, brutal people, just like the Nords. Would anyone see a Nord anywhere else? Probably not. While Skyrim may not be all snow and ice, but I actually hope it is, as the Nords have adapted to that climate, it wouldn't make sense for them to live in a desert.

He said "bland meadow" not fantasy forest.

Oh excuse me shadow, I misspoke, but that isn't really the point there. Bland forests, bland meadows, one just has trees and the other does not.

And won't this just lead us right back to where we started. "Skyrim is just snow".

It's actually:

Ascadian Isles, Ashlands, Azura's Coast, Bitter Coast, Grazelands, Molag Amur, Red Mountain, Sheogorad, West Gash, Zafirbel Bay

to

Blackwood, Colovian Highlands, Gold Coast, Great Forest, Heartlands, Jerall Mountains, Nibenay Basin, Nibenay Valley, Valus Mountains, West Weald




10 to 10

They're borrowed because it's a great representation of the game. If it bothers you that much, allow me to put them in quotes and add -Yahtzee at the end.



:lmao:

I'm not even going to try and argue with that ignorant comment...

Not if Bethesda learned their lesson from all of Oblivion, and a decent sized part of Morrowind. (OMG Morrowind fan stated a flaw with his game, and it didn't hurt. Take notes certain people :shifty: )

Oh and Seti, once again you skewer numbers to try to make me look wrong. Half of those Oblivion regions look the same. Seriously, would it kill you to say Morrowind had more regional variety? Seriously I just proved it's not hard to state your favorite game has a flaw, I promise it can be done.

Lets try your little list again (only counting ones that are different.)

Morrowind: Ashy crap, Bitter Coast, Azura's Coast (includes Sheogorad), Grazelands, Red Mountain, West Gash, Ascadian Isles.
Oblivion: Mountains (both ranges), Gold Coast, Great Forest (West Weald, Nibenay Valley and Colovian Highlands all look close to the same, trees), Heartlands, Swamp (Blackwood and the Basin).

Oh wait, was it the Basin or Valley thats the swamp... I get confused because the lack of variety makes it hard to differentiate between regions.