I'd like to see spears, or throwing spears....that would make it funner. Bow is noce, but nicer if there were spears...maybe as an ADD ON...in the famous City of Elsywer or, Black Marsh..

Because Spears aren't "mainstream" enough.

Oh God, I feel like such a hipster saying that. :sadvaultboy:

People back than complain about Morrowind that spears are useless. These are the same people that usually complain that they cannot hit jack, they cannot find things, take too long to walk everywhere, and they thought Fargoth was hitting on them.

The dev took these complaint and made Oblivion.

With what they did in oblivion spears would have been slightly useful.

Ya mean mashing axes and hammer in the same skill set call Blunt and daggers and claymores in one skill, Blade?

But still, they could of added some dignity to the spear and put it in in either one of those skill, but I take it the complaint back then was too great to to added in. Shame, would have fit with the Imperial Army so well.

Yes I agree. I'm surprised but I bet someone made conjured spears for oblivion that was the best way to go.

Spears would have meant an additional set of animations for only one weapon type. My suspicon is that was also the reason for removing Throwing Weapons: another animation class for limited use. There was even some rumor about removing ranged weapons completely, but the outcry on the forums made it apparent that it was a bad idea to axe them (or is that "Blunt" them now?) Sadly, each of those "limited uses" may have been a small thing, but when you add them all up, and then remove them as a group, it makes for a whole game "of limited use".

At the rate things are being removed from the series, eventually we'll have only one character that we can play, we'll only be able to use one type of weapon, have only one offensive and one defensive spell (or one that does both), and one opponent. It'll be an amazing game......

I can't believe everyone cares about spears so much. Why aren't any of you pushing for flails to return?

As for adding extra animations for thrown weapons or whatever, it wouldn't be much different than the animation for a one handed sword swing. I especially want them to return now that we can poison weapons, so I can toss poisoned ninja stars at everyone.

I just thought it woul look cool to be runng around with a spear, or have a "follower" that specializes in only one weapon. Spear....maye those guy from Riorek? with the "curved" swords...."curved" swords... =)

Just so you know, spears, javelins, crrossbows and numinit like that were first introduced in Battlespire...

It's hilarious. There's only like 5 actual animations per weapon type, and you guys think "too many new animations" are the reason they removed weapon types, so save performance for the consoles.

:facepalm:
So long as bethesda can get away with removing more and more stuff, they'll keep doing it and getting perfect 10/10 scores for doing so.

Next, I imagine the game will have only 3 cities, one dungeon tileset, and you'll be able to choose from "melee" or "ranged" offensive skills.

Yes this will happen.

And you guys will still buy the game anyway :whistling:

Spears and thrown weapons would actually be the logical items to use in a fight against dragons. I mean, if dragons actually behaved towards the player as they behave towards NPCs, it would be obvious that going melee with a sword isn't exactly the wisest move to use against an opponent that can just grab and munch you. Or push you down a cliff.

exactly. throwing axes and javelins make the most sense in this game lore-wise

I'd love spears, throwing knives and chain weapons.

Games like this that have spears usually use the same animation for 2h weapons, and it looks stupid swinging a spear as if it were a warhammer. I'd rather they didn't include spears unless they were also going to make thrusting animations for them, as well.

I miss the thrusting animation for swords, too. It always seemed ridiculous to slash an armored opponent with a Shortsword or Dagger in Oblivion; that's the LEAST effective form of attack against armor. Making a stabbing animaiton for both spears and swords would have been a huge visual improvement to combat; only massive modding could save the rest of the game.

[ After some of the metaphors involving Spears in Morrowind, I'd almost have been surprised if they didn't remove them. ]

I'd like spears to return eventually (partly because the Argonians got Spear bonuses in Morrowind), but I'm not going to wail too much about it.

An interesting addition to Marksman (requiring changing the skill back to Marksman from Archery, obviously) could be the atlatl. The atlatl is a spear-throwing implement that, in the real world, is probably older than our species is. Projectile spears, sometimes called "darts" have been found and associated with Homo heidelbergensis, which is probably the nearest common ancestor we share with Neanderthals. Anyway, it's basically a stick that you use to fling the spear or dart, the extra arm length adding force, range, accuracy. It might be a little strange to add, but it would be cool, I think.

Ugh. The people here that complain incessantly about Bethesda removing stuff are atrocious.

You are seriously overextending yourself when you start pretending there's been a trend of cutting the game down that will result in exaggeratedly few features. Every time they do something like remove unneeded attributes (Athletics was incredibly straightforward and hardly noticable, strength was redundant, luck was useless, and other skills like Intelligence and Endurance still exist, just by more straightforward names) or compress weapon skills, you all pitch a fit and ignore the inclusion of better dungeons, new gameplay features, better customization of characters (linear leveling perks are inferior to customizable perks) and nicer environments, as well as a whole host of other cool additions like properly flying enemies and more logical magic.

Bethesda isn't "dumbing down" TES. You are just mistaking grinding for complexity, more skills for better customization of your character, and out-of-place weapons for variety. (Throwing stars are useless against plate armor, spears aren't used in battles like TES has, etc. A case can be made for throwing axes, at least.)


I understand that you may miss these features, but most of them they had VERY GOOD reasons to remove or adjust.

The only one I disagree with massively is the sleep-to-level feature, because it made leveling feel so much bigger. (I loved those messages too)

But you're ignoring the fact that Morrowind was a game that had beautiful and unique environments, so citing that as an addition is hardly relevant. The removal of attributes I...I won't argue with. I do find it horrendous when Bethesda makes a statement like "Attributes are just numbers that go up". How preposterous. I'll admit that Oblivion and Morrowind had a ridiculous levelling system, especially in Oblivion where picking the skills you used least as your majors was more beneficial. But to say that attributes are just numbers that go up is ridiculous. It's only because Bethesda can't make a levelling system that actually works like Arcanum or Fallout 1 or 2 had that they think that way.

I enjoy Skyrim, but it's littered with flaws. The "streamlining" is glaringly obvious. Half of the skills aren't even implemented properly. Why is it that it's more advantageous levelling wise to make iron daggers than it is to make daedric armour, as if they require the same amount of skill? As far as factions go, they still feel ludicrous due to the fact that there are no levelling requirements associated with them, meaning that you can become arch-mage at level 4 while casting 3 spells in your entire career, much like in Oblivion. All this is getting away from the point, however.

Calling spears "out of place" in a game like Skyrim where I can't walk 5 feet in any direction without being assaulted by dragons that are just as annoying as cliff racers is just silly. The combat system is barely changed from Oblivion apart from cinematic finishing moves which is hardly an addition at all, and dual-weilding. Overall it comes across as a poor man's Deadly Reflex. It's true, there are new gameplay features. Things like marriage, which I don't even have to talk about. If you've gotten married in the game, you know how perplexingly stupid it is. There's yet again more talk of "Radiant AI" where if I throw stupid items that I accidentally picked up on the ground like a cast iron pot, I'll have someone hand it back to me, telling me that I dropped it. Great.

If Bethesda wants to implement things like marriage and more miscellaneous quests than I have hairs on my head, fine. But I'd rather that if they couldn't do it properly, don't do it at all. The perks system is nice, but half the time the perks are just "You do more damage when you use this type of weapon!". That's all well and good, but we went from having the weapons seperated into skills in Morrowind and it's predecessors, then to Oblivion when they weren't seperated at all, and back again in Skyrim.

The best example I can really provide is the vampires. Oh sure, I understand implementing lore-friendly Volikhar would be incredibly difficult gameplay wise, but we didn't even get a half-heartened attempt. We just got Cyrodiilic vampires that at higher levels just had the name "Volikhar" slapped on at the beginning, and they might occasionally use frost based spells. Skyrim feels like a nice game, don't get me wrong. But don't pretend like it's made all these huge leaps and bounds gameplay-wise. TES is become more of an action/adventure game with stats and skill trees, and less and less of a traditional RPG, a blind man could see that. Comparing Morrowind to Skyrim is like...Diablo to Arcanum.

I don't understand why you quoted me....I was just offering up a suggestion for another ranged weapon, I wasn't complaining about reductions nor defending them.

Apologies, I quoted the wrong person.

You are absolutely right =]
Which is why I'm sad to say it, but I'm kinda disappointing with Skyrim...

Well, nice that you see the use of throwing axes. But spears out-of-place? A spear would be the natural choice of weapon to fight a dragon. A spear has reach and can keep an enemy at bay, especially one that tries to just grab you with his huge jaws. Furthermore, a spear produces piercing damage, which would be the most logical choice with a heavily armored beast where you want to hit a spot between scales in order to kill it. Even if everything went south, you lost your spear fight and you somehow ended up next to the dragon, you would use your sword to pierce, not to slash.