How would you improve it then?
Why have speechcraft and mercantile skill,only for them to be bypassed by creating an illusion/charm spell for two seconds.
It was easy to exploit as some have said.
You want to make a spell that freezes and burns at the same time,that doesn't make sense to me.
As billy connolly would say: "It's time to trim the herd"
Don't fear change my friend.

Well, I think the response to that is: BGS did improve the magic system (well, so they claim, but it sounds like the ability to customise a spell by the way you cast it will be a useful feature). It's just that the improvements to some aspects of the magic system necessitated removing some aspects of the magic system which appeared in previous games.

As a reply to the OP: I agree that some aspects of the new system (which haven't been confirmed, but perhaps are likely) replace spell-making. For instance, spells increasing in magnitude automatically as your skill in that magic school increases. But there are other aspects of spell-making for which it's not clear we'll get an adequate replacement.

...guys if Enchanting is a skill again (has to deal with SPELL EFFECTS) why would spell making be out.

We're already getting more variety with 80 something unique spells, even if spellmaking is taken out you'll be fine.

You do have a point....but spell making did have it's exploits...wouldn't you agree?....suppose you could say the same for enchanting.
I'm just saying i wouldn't miss spellmaking if it wasn't there...but i'm not everyone else.
But like i said in an earlier post.
Some skills just got exploited because of it.
Ice freezes the skin now,and slows enemies down.
Fire burns longer etc.
Combining these two effects in a spell creation,would be overpowered and would not make sense.
I also think it was to easy to be invisible,or get 100% chameleon.
Anyway my view is not everyone elses,but there you go

Yeah I kind of doubt it is out, but instead a bad translation or not in the right context translation. My guess from what I've read is they were talking about dual wielding spells and how having 2 different spells did not create a unique 3rd spell when they were cast. Also people seem to have invented almost whole cloth what the new spell system will entail. When I click the left mouse button depending on how I lovingly caress it determines whether or not the spell is a flame thrower, a long range projectile, a explosive projectile, a point blank area of effect, or a trap and that makes it deep, it is like deeper than spell making. Right...

Also removal of large features is not a good thing, pretty much ever. There may be things they add that make the loss less painful, but I'd rather not get stabbed in the face than get stabbed in the face and then be handed a band aid. Whether or not spell casting is cooler now than before is irrelevant to the idea of whether or not spell making is a good feature to have. All it means is overall magic might be better than before because its new game play elements are so freaking awesome that they are more awesome than spell making. While possible, it is more of a personal opinion thing and others may value spell making more. Me I think spell making is core to being a mage. For a D&D example Bigby isn't a bad ass in greyhawk because he is a powerful wizard, he is a bad ass because he invented all the bigby hand spells that people will know for centuries to come.(Okay being a member of the circle of eight is cool as well) On the role playing side of things, making your own spells is a way mages put their mark on the world, it is how you can gain a form of immortality.

im completely fine with it being out. the way i see it is with the new overhauled system they might not be able to implement it without all the bugs ironed out.

i remember hearing that when they were asked about spell combining (spell in right hand being combined with spell in left hand to form a new spell) todd said "we're not talking about that". i think they will be doing something like that in the game.

if so that would more than likely conflict with any spell making. there would be to many varieables to take into acount if a player took 2 custom spells and combined them. so as long as im getting a more in depth kick ass spell system i could live without spell making. so long as i can enchant my dungeon helm to give me night eye, life detect 25ft, and water breathing ill be fine :goodjob:

also i think the enchanting parchment to make a spell scroll would be a awesome idea and would sort of make up for the spell making.

I agree the spell after effects are confusing as it seems certain effects are now Hybrids. but it is no more abusive than would be enchanting both rings and gloves plus boots into an almighty Machine of exploits, I don't think they would take out one aspect and leave another when they deal in similar fields. this spellmaking is out bit was blown out of proportion and now people are regurgitating it all over the Forums, until it becamse Psuedo-fact :confused:

I'm glad it's gone. The system was just begging to be abused. The spells you usually created were either broken or cheaper then the common version. No more Drain Health 100 for 1 second or Custom Fire Spells with Paralyze effects, etc.

The one thing I will say is if they do truly get rid of Spell Making, Even though I said that I'm glad it's gone the spells need to be better then they were in Oblivion which judging from what I've heard it's going to be good.

Problem with spellmaking is that it allows the player to create far more potent stuff than any AI would "think of", unlike a proper GM who would come up with solutions on the fly when things get out of hand.

Are you saying a game tailored to casual players would have just as much depth as a game tailored to hardcoe players?

Here's why I like spellmaking.

Spellmaking allows me to make many slightly different variations of a spell for different purposes. A flame spell that does minimal damage over al ong period of time. I can use this for helping out companions or summons, I can cast it on something that's been pursuing me that I'm not ready to go toe to toe with. I can hit them with it and then go invisible for its duration. Or I could do a flame spell that does lots of damage up front to really [censored] [censored] up immediately and end conflict almost immediately. Or I can do one of the two with an area effect making it more suitable for groups of enemies. Or I can do an all-at-once flame spell with less damage to conserve some magicka for other spells.

Being able to use a flame spell with different applications is nice, but it doesn't replace the versatility and freedom of spellmaking, and a majority of mage characters really had a lot of uses for it. Besides, now how will we work things that worked on duration alone? Like Night-Eye, Summons, Invisibility? Will we cast them for a low initial cost and have it drain magicka as time goes on and we have to disable it? Will we only get certain durations of those based on the spell we buy? Without spellmaking 85 unique spells isn't something gamesas should be bragging about. That's a pathetic amount of spells for being completely unchangeable.

Once the cool factor of using fire as a flamethrower (not really sure how that's super cool anyway...) and its other uses (fire trap? Dark Messiah already did that; it was the least interesting spell in the whole game), we're going to be stuck with a very inflexible magic system where we have to find all 85 spells just to use their limited applications. It's going to take some of the freedom away from combat for some people who preferred doing things a certain way, or a different way each time.

It's just a really stupid idea to remove spellmaking, and even stupider for people to think it couldn't be combined with the tiny gimmicks that gamesas has added to spells.


gamesas could easily dumb down Enchanting to fit the new spell system. See, where the spells have these different ways of being used, which would apparently make the spellmaking system impossible to keep (still think that's the most [censored] [censored] I've ever heard), they could make it so that enchanting a sword with fire would simply cause it to do a certain amount of extra damage when you use it, and the only difference would be that that extra damage would be tied to the element of fire (weaknesses and resistances then come into play versus that sword). I mean, they dumbed down both spell making and enchanting... well, just the magic system in general, in Oblivion. What's to say they can't take it to the next level and find ways for it to svck even more?

Nope Casual is not a derogetory word in anyway, if people wish to take it that way so be it. but a game shouldn't be staunched because people don't want to take the time to understand it, if they want to sit and play with no penalties (obviously because they term themselevs casual the mere action of playing a game is a penalty to their life) then there are games for that.

Why should a Game Dev Company bend over backwards and half-ass their game for people who feel they don't have the time to play games? if such is so then get your priorities straight and pick up the game right for you, "hardcoe" gamers don't neccesarily have all the time in the world either, but its my Opinion most of them can appreciate the work and effort going into a series like TES, as such they want the Game to be worth THEIR time as well, where as a casual could care less it seems, they just want to play, then put it down and get on with their lives.

the Art shouldnt suffer because the Audience lacks an attention span, or rather are too busy typing on their Mobiles and handling 6 other tasks.

Anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of the CS will likely be able to fashion themselves spells like the past games. Furthermore, gaps in the game like spellmaking are perfect spots for mods to do their work.

There is NOTHING good about removing spell making. It's a terrible idea. You can't very well call yourself a mage and not be able to make your own spells, that's just absurdity.

I made a topic about it, but it never really caught much attention.

But making scrolls makes more sense to me than making spells themselves. If I were to creat a unique spell, first I'd map out what I was going to try and do at least on paper. Not just throw to random effects together to see what happens, cause with my luck it would explode somehow. Spellmaking would also be tied to a skill then, something else I would like to see. I'd assume there would be some kind of learning curve to creating spells. Making scrolls via enchanting could easily take over spell making. It'd handle the ballance problem too, cause scrolls run out of juice after one use. It'd take a lot more work to constantly be able to use the holes spell making can make.

so what this is a single player game ,it hurt no one.

So you've never been able to call yourself a mage in any other game?

Completely agree. All of the other info we've gotten has left me still feeling pretty positive about the game (or at least, hasn't really disappointed me). Even things like the possibility of no attributes - I can see how there might be other ways of doing the jobs that attributes did in previous games.

But with spell-making out, it's just not clear how we'll get the range of magic customisation we had in Morrowind (or even in Oblivion). Maybe I'm wrong about that. I've read through all the threads on spell-making that have come up since that remark in the Italian magazine, and I haven't noticed any plausible suggestions for how we'll get a satisfying range of magic customisation for the full range of spell effects - not just direct damage dealing spells. If somebody has a good idea here, then I'll happily be more optimistic, but at the moment I'm pretty worried about this.

Well yes because the spells aren't as broken as the custom ones that were usually created. I think it's a good thing if it's gone from Skyrim.

A swordsman has a smith make their swords. We never see Legolas make his own arrows. Spellmaking should be the same in my opinion. A large amount of knoledge about magic is passed on through scrolls, not thought up on the fly. I agree that one would think if you could fire one fire ball you could tweak how you fire it, but spellmaking takes from every school of magic, so it would be hard to come up with a system that allows you to make spells based one what you know via your levels in each school. And there could be a trick involving combining different effects from different schools for different amounts of time. How does one know how resteration magic will act when added to chamelion magic?

I think there doing it because the development time to create the hybrid spell effects would be well...no much stuff to do.

But i really am not to worried WHY: Mod tools . Oh and everyone who has a console and goes "well you have mod tools what about us?" Not my problem.

Enchanting...scrolls. Wouldn't that...pretty much handle everything?

Wow, supreme logic. Bethesda should just remove features at will so modders can have at it!

what good are enchanted scrolls when Sanguine sets you up and you lose ALL your inventory? or the Mythic Dawn initiation Quest, no scrolls or anything. I had to rely on Magic buffs and spells to survivne long enough to reach my gear. no.