Why a Stormcloak win should be canon #2

Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:29 pm

Erikur is also noted to be indifferent to loyalties, as uesp mentions he is willing to sell to Stormcloaks also. Nobles in Skyrim aren't perfect, on both sides of the civil war. Skald isn't a great noble, Laila is politically weak. The Elder Council aren't mentioned much, so I hold off doubts since Erikur is merely a self interested Skyrim noble. Tullius' comment is powerful to be sure.

The Carvains seem to be lowly nobles, they're trying to secure an import deal and try gain an audience with the Emperor. Two people don't paint a province, same could be said for nobles like Silver-Bloods etc. Nobles are nobles, you rarely get good ones.

On the subject of the Carvains, they're harmless. Have come across them after you kill Vici? I nearly pissed myself laughing.

Salonia: "I hate it here. Those were my favorite shoes, ruined and for what? We never even made it to the wedding."
Plautis: "Wha... Your shoes? We get robbed by bandits, my clothes torn to shreds by some giant cat, our bodyguard eaten by a dragon... And you're worried about your shoes?"
Salonia: "When we get back to Cyrodiil, I swear I will hire an army of battlemages to come up here and set fire to the whole damned province."

Ulfric and Tullius are focused on their war. The Dragons are becoming a problem, as Tullius admits when you ask him so it means. They're becoming a problem. Tullius and Ulfric are stubborn.

The Forsworn are dangerous, even if they use sticks and bones. They attack settlements, trade shipments, travelers. Supplies are managing to go through, on roads the Forsworn don't attack. So if you don't control certain roads, that is an issue.

Some loose stones here and there? The homes are falling apart, walls are crumbling. It may be the oldest city in Skyrim, but unless you want it to be the oldest ruin it needs constant maintenance.

As for Balgruuf and his steward, the full quote for that is.

Proventus: "My lord, our provisions are running dangerously low. Our stores of meat, wine and grain are all but depleted."
Balgruuf: "Purchase more supplies, then. That's your job as Steward, isn't it? Why do you trouble me with these details?"
Proventus: "My lord, since Ulfric Stormcloak's uprising, the cost of goods has doubled. I'll need more coin if I'm to provision us properly."
Balgruuf: "Our coffers are nearly empty. I can scarcely afford to pay the guards, and we need every one of them in these troubled times. You'll have to make do with what we have, Proventus."

Proventus: "Yes, my lord."

Belethor mentions it. "Interesting, to say the least. What with all that's been going on. On the one hand, supplies are harder to come by, since fewer traders are traveling the roads these days. But on the other, the scarcity of supplies has led to some, well, 'elevated' prices. All that matters is that I have what you need. And it's worth every septim."

The Khajiit traders also mention it.

"The dragons and the war have scared many other traders away, but for those with courage, there is much profit to be made."

So the Priestess is lying? Should of known that when she said Talos be with you when Rogvir died. Stormcloak propaganda... :tongue:

Need to obtain those supplies, need to restore the resources the war took tolls on. They can do it, but it'll be sometime and it won't be simple. It'll take a lot of resources to simply be able to keep the resources and keep Forsworn and Bandits from raiding supplies. Also with the lack of traders in Skyrim, be sometime before they all return.

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Nicole Coucopoulos
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:58 am

Actually, Faction Identity is reality.

"Money Pays for Taxes" - Actually, taxes are "Whatever the hell your faction needs from you". A blacksmith pays his taxes in Swords+Armor, not worthless little coins.
With strong, centralized leadership and identity WITH that leadership, Food, Medicine, and other ammeneties are provided by non-coinage taxes and distributed by the leader's systems. With faction identity, you don't need to pay the workers - they're the ones paying you. And faction identity DOES pay the workers as well - They're repaid in security, power, and their sense of belonging and accomplishment.

In conflict-torn areas, the most effective governments are Socialist Autocracies.

The real fools are those who think people are rational.

Money only has value because people say it has value.
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BrEezy Baby
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:29 pm

The point is not that there aren't imperfect nobles on the Stormcloak's side. The point was related to the leadership in Cyrodiil standing together because of the Dominion threat, when we have fairly good grounds for thinking that this might not be the case. It strikes me as far from unlikely that the Elder Council harbors people who are opposed to fighting the Dominion because of personal gains. And if fighting the Dominion is Motierre's plan, he'll have to fight with those people. Unless, of course, Motierre is opposed to fighting the Dominion, which would bring a whole other level of problems. We don't really know what he wants, except change the Empire's policies, which include preparing for war with the Dominion.

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Nick Jase Mason
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:18 am

All this shows is that their issues lie in that the civil war is ongoing and holding things up. I'll stop the dragon and forsworn argument, as it's simply us saying "Nuh uh". All in all, these are all issues that can be addressed and will cease to be issues when drafting, recruiting, and economy gains from war prep, and people getting jobs for this purpose starts. History proves this. Nothing in Skyrim is so terrible that it will cause the whole Kingdom on its own to fail. Cyrodiil didn't, even with riots and bandits taking cities.

And Windhelm's buildings don't look like they're falling apart, they're just greyed because its stone, and the place is in a bleak location filled with snow. The only part of windhelm that can claim disrepair is the grey quarter.

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Carys
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:08 am

Erikur isn't Cyrodiil leadership, neither are those two lowly Nobles. We only see Titus Mede II, Motierre who are Cyrodiil leadership.

Possibly Tullius given his status as Military Governor at the end of the war makes him Skyrim's acting Head of State. (While technically speaking Rikke is acting as Skyrim's political ruler since Tullius hands those duties to her.)

That is why I can't paint a picture given that the only person we know holds power in Cyrodiil Government is Titus Mede II, we're not even sure if Motierre is an Elder Councilor only that he had the amulet.

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Floor Punch
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:13 pm

Strong Leadership means stability and competence. You can't have commerce or resources without stability.

Also not everything in life is money and busyness administration.

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Sista Sila
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:20 pm

I'm not saying Skyrim will fail, but it will take many years. Maybe longer than the Empire took when it was using two other province's resources to rebuild also.

Go inside many of Windhelm's buildings, they're rotting and falling apart. Look around the city, you'll see sections throughout the city that are falling apart. Even huge chunks from the walls. That would suggest lack of timber and stone to make repairs, just like Brunwulf mentions. Ulfric is hard pressed for resources too, which was the point I was making. To say only in Imperial victory it is, is a little stretching it.

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GLOW...
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:36 am

Dude, Whiterun's walls are the ones falling apart. Windhelm's is solid as hell and in much better condition. I just don't see this so called ruin of a city that is so bad that it's a major point against its infrastructure, and that'll take immediate attention to be repaired. I also doubt these issues will take years when the surge of supplies from mines come untaxed, and also the EEC may take advantage of the new effort and increase trade efforts there, boosting both the Empire and Skyrim's economy respectively. Everything isn't all doom and gloom.

Why are we even discussing this? Every supposed issue Skyrim has has an option to be a problem or not, and we can state these options till the horkers come home. We won't prove anything besides the fact that we're stubborn enough to continue the point until the thread is locked.

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Mark Churchman
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:18 am

I know Whiterun's walls are falling, they have timber. Anyway about the EETC, they're taxing heavily, raising prices on all their goods. Given the Nord who trades with Raven Rock's dialogue.

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Enny Labinjo
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:08 pm

Windhelm is freaking ancient.It is bound to look a little rugged.

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james reed
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:57 am

Again, during the war, not after. They'd lower it if it meant more trade with Skyrim for them, because that would mean more spending, and more money than heavy taxes would bring.

And Windhelm's walls are quite thick, man. They don't need repairs. The war likely won't even make it to Skyrim initially. Not unless the Thalmor just mow through Cyrodiil.

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Dragonz Dancer
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:50 pm

Which they likely will, given that the Empire has completely imploded.
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Tom Flanagan
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:56 am

If they don't get an alliance of some kind, then probably, though that depends on just how many legionnaires they have at the border. I don't think they'd lose many soldiers immediately from lost territories.

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maya papps
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:26 pm

They're more likely to lose soldiers through defection and desertion. Why fight for a corpse you don't even believe in?

Of course, this depends on the Aldmeri Dominion, as well. While they've certainly got the "Be the worst enemy possible" down pretty well, they may not have the "Be the best friend possible" bit, which depends on how they treat their client states.
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Jennifer May
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:43 am

Sul says they would have to fight for it or lose face.

For perspective, in the Khajiit-Bosmer wars, Cyrodiil closed its border to prevent refugees from fleeing north. Skyrim could have done the same, or tried. They had no obligation to help the Dunmer.

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Louise Lowe
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:08 pm

Indeed, which is a mystery since all we know about Valenwood is they do "purges", but not how far it goes, and if it is ethnic, political or both. And if its enough to outrage a majority or not.

As for the corpse comment, it would be the difference between that and thalmor winning, which I think many still fear from the last great war. Though I do think with a few years of inactivity that a percentage would indeed return to their independent homes. Just not enough to make it a once sided victory if the Thalmor do push first. Their track record doesn't show that they can pull off those kinds of head on attacks well. Personally, I think they'll wait it out until either the Empire completely falls on its own, or the humans attack first.

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Harry Hearing
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:54 pm

The Civil war is causing the largest merchant shipping company to raise their prices to Morrowind? I don't think Skyrim has that much importance, they were willing to cut off their Head Office in Skyrim over pirate issues.

Walls always need repair and maintenance. It isn't just the cities walls, but buildings, and other stonework. When large sections of the stonework are missing it needs looked after. I'm not saying Windhelm should be perfect, but it was about Ulfric's resources are limited too. Walk around Windhelm the next time you play Skyrim, and tell me if you don't think it could use repair across the city. Thing is old, but it still needs some loving.

They're also all sworn by an undying oath. So it all depends on what some men consider their word is worth.

Edit: Legions have been known to sacrifice themselves to almost the last in battle. Tenth in Akavir and the Eighth during Great War.

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Hannah Whitlock
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:15 pm

The problem is whether they DO fear the Thalmor winning or not. They might say "Meh, the elves can't do a worse job than the current clowns we have in charge."
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Hazel Sian ogden
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:54 pm

Given the atrocities the Thalmor/Aldmeri committed on the innocent populations during the sack of the Imperial City. I would doubt they'd think that. But you never know.

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Pants
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:15 pm

You just said they were raising all their goods. I was talking about in relation to Skyrim. If that isn't what they're doing, then there's no issue. Provide the dialogue please. Either way, my point of them lowering it during the war effort to increase trade with Skyrim for more money still stands. Yet again, the point made is irrelevant to the one I am making.

These are Nords we're talking about. And Imperials despite their government, have history with overcoming elven masters. I doubt they'd take that attitude, especially with the sacking of the imperial city and everything they did there. And especially since the Thalmor are so obviously extreme and not likely to simply rule for them, but to rule them.

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Marilú
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:24 pm

"This load cost me double what we had agreed on. Nothing I can do about it."

"Damn it, Gjalund. You know we don't have that much coin."

"Look, the East Empire Company didn't give me a choice. They've raised their prices again, and there's nothing I can do about it."

"After all these years, they're gouging us for every last drake we have. Let me talk to Lleril. I'll see what we can do."

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Dragonborn:Adril_Arano

Also there is the quest for the Spiced Wine which there is a 2,000 Gold Tariff. The quest giver mentions it's always a hassle with them, she doesn't say it was because of the war.

The EETC makes more gold for the Empire, doubtful they'd lower prices. Probably tax you more being out of the Empire.

Edit: East Empire Company dominates the shipping industry in Tamriel. It's more a love hate relationship, you need them. They probably don't need you.

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Natasha Callaghan
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:16 pm

Neither of those specify whether this is something going on with everyone, just Skyrim, and if it will be a sign for relations in the future. It's simple.

When you want to increase trade, you lower taxes. You lower taxes, trade goes up, and you gain more money.

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Thema
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:10 pm

EEC always has trade, they dominate the shipping industry. It is going on for House Redoran on the island with the EEC draining them for every shipment. I don't think they personally care, they own it all. Even the Thalmor are considering a deal with the Company.

Skyrim can make a deal, so the EEC can exploit resources.

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Alina loves Alexandra
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:45 pm

The EEC isn't the only means of trade, or there wouldn't be sailors and merchants by ship in Skyrim. Not as much, anyway. Nations can't survive off of one shipping company, so there is competition.

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Melanie
 
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Post » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:16 pm

Of course there are other means of trade, on land also. But the EEC is the one that dominants, so you'll always have to deal with them in one form or another. They're the Weyland-Yutani of Tamriel.

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Project
 
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