Due process?! This isn't America, this is Skyrim, where you can kill a chicken and pay with your life. No trial, just a guard and his steel.

You were captured with a group of rebels; that's all the proof that's needed. In a time of war they don't have time to try every single person, and someone who appears as guilty as you would most definitely be found guilty even if tried.

He started the civil war to save his people and his traditions from persecution and destruction. The other side of the civil war limping along with the Thalmor, not doing whats best for their people.

I just fight for Elsweyr's freedom from the Thalmor on most of my Khajiit. Gutslit doesn't like war, so he just kills what Thalmor he finds.

and to the quote about due process and not being in America, in skyrim they still have put people on trial. The reason you get attacked if you kill a chicked is because it is consider violent assault. if u steal something, u just get arrested.

What about the Grey Quarter then? You can't say that every Dark Elf is an Imperial spy, when they just fled from the cataclysm caused by Red Mountain eruption. I mean, their presence in Windhelm is pretty legit because it's the nearest city after Morrowind. And just for that reason they are hated to death. The Empire, before Red Mountain's eruption, was present in Morrowind and from what I read, they didn't treated the Dark Elves to live like they do in Windhelm, a vivid sign that the Empire exist to keep the peace in Tamriel.

Klawed Flaw!! The Khajiit are truly epic. I dont understand why they are kept outside city wall though. Too many fishysticks in the caravans perhaps.

That's just the caravans that are kept outside. The caravans sell drugs, so yeah. Most Khajiit don't want to be in Skyrim. It's cold, and stuff.

And the reason the elves are disliked is because of the Thalmor trying to secure Meric supremacy. The dark elves in Morrowind treated outsiders the same way.

We're on the same boat then Gutslit, I fight for the freedom of Aldmeri Dominion from the thalmor, so that include Elsweyr.

This, I must agree, the dunmer treated outsider the same way, does not make it right but it justifies it a little for me.

Well mates, that pretty much wraps up this topic. I shall soon stir up more controversial game topics }:-)

That doesn't make it right. It might be easier to sympathize with Ulfric if he wasn't so blatantly racist.

He didn't start the war. His people were promised certain freedoms (free worship) in return for ousting the Forsworn from the reach. He did so. But was later turned over after the Markarth Incident. This was in his view, a betrayal. Heck, Ulfric even fought for the Empire during the great war. The worst you can accuse him of is being a man who is unwilling to accept the terms of surrender placed upon his people (Nords) by a foreign ruling power (Imperials). Sort of like how the Okinawans are force to support approx 70% of all the US troops in Japan, on their little island (that's also the smallest prefecture in the entire country) simply because the ethnic Japanese do not want the troops on the mainland...

Imperials play puppet till they are fit to face the Thalmor. Ulfric fights for Ulfric.

If he truly wanted to end the ban on Talos (which is pretty much the only thing he seems to use as a rally) he should've fought the Thalmor directly. But no, he had to place the blame on someone so he show 'weakness' of another power higher than him.

I'm in agreement with Klawed Flaw. Thalmor are really the only ones who are the problem.

any ideas? maybe the level of detail that went into NPC's or lack there-of and why we should have less party members but have more detailed ones

And to Griffix4, Ulfric doesnt fight for Ulfric. Ulfric fights for Skyrim.

And exactly what kind of freedom does he mean? Becuase according to Alvor, before the civil war, everyone stil has their own shrine of Talos, under the circumstances, that is acceptable, but then he ask for freedom what kind of freedom? Everyone still has their own shrine of Talos.

This is probably the most controversial one. Could tell from your first post that it was supposed to be bait, but I took it anyways

I'm not going to argue against this point. I see it as being the common operating procedure. However, I do expect it to be understood that, if someone attempts to lop my head off for no reason, I'm seriously going to do what I can to return the favor. The rest of the matter about religious freedom, murdering innocent civilians and all that, that's just gravy.

I personally think that it should be more like mass effect , but ill save the ammo for another time when i actually kindle the discussion. any ideas for a catchy title?

Both Windhelm and Markarth have their own shrine of Talos, and Whiterun too, plus, as you said, there are people, specifically Hroggvir' sister, that have their small shrines in form of amulets. I don't see the issue.

You seem to be neglecting the whole part about people being yanked out of their homes and marched off to be tortured and killed. And the part about how the Empire either can't or won't do anything about it. Which in the eyes of those whose families are being torn apart, that makes the Empire rather less than useless. Yeah you know, murdering peoples' families tends to get them pretty pissed off, dontcha think?.

Again, what are your thoughts about the Srebrenica Massacre? Real life example.

The Imperials and the Stormcloaks are the same one and all.

Come to think of it....The Great War is sort of like the Alamo Davy Crockett, Will Travis, and all the other brave soldiers that died that day. Santanna was later defeated by Houston cause the Mexicans were having their midday siesta (like they do).

If the Stormcloaks would realize a mutual combative advantage of ending the war (faking a loss) and rebuilding itself then later joining forces with the Imperial legion in its assualt/defense against the Aldmeri Dominion, which will strike again, rallying themselves together they could both take the Thalmor by surprise and win.

And if you notice, Battle-born Imperial supporters are generally jerks with the exception of Jon Battle-born who is decent. The rest of the family are more concened with wealth as opposed to honor and tradition.