Something I notice about Stormcloak supporters is that they are often either short-sighted or simply misinformed.

Long live the Empire!

Curse you, Godwin's Law!

America was actually capable of defeating the Nazis while the Empire could not hold back the Dominion. The Empire made a tactical retreat / loss so that they could fight again one day. Should they have kept fighting, allowing more citizens and soldiers to be slaughtered in a losing battle? That's not honorable, that's foolish.

Personally I'd rather be the captured slave that eventually gets ahold of the weapon that ends my oppressor. There isn't much honor in war, sneaking and stabbing. All is far in the game of war.
Ulfric proved that in his duel with Torygg.

Ulfric gave him an ultimatum and he chose poorly. Either resign from being high king, give the title over to someone more capable, and stand by their side in the war against the Thalmor or we fight for the title.

A sidenote about the Nords: the Nords came from Atmora to Skyrim because of a civil war in their motherland, so maybe they simply love to fight regardless the topic lol

@griffix, @dmsp

Stentor is the woman lol

Ulfric stood for the freedom of his people against the Thalmor and the empire as William Wallace stood up for Scotland against England.

Source? The only source that we have is from Sybill Stentor as far as I know.

This is a case of one corrupt individual: the captain. Tullius obviously entrusted the sentencing of those captured to the captain, and as far as he knows she's done the job properly and you're a Stormcloak. He can't tell just by looking at you that you aren't a rebel...

Maybe its just me but I don't recall him ever actually saying anything to Torygg until the 'duel'. Besides the Jarls would've had to go through another Moot to decide if who'd be the next High King/Queen of Skyrim anyways. I don't think I'd vote for someone who had threatened the previous King, usually means you only want power. Ulfric should have been more of an advisor than trying to opt for the throne.

You had no uniform on and Lokir even screamed, "I'm not a rebel, you can't do this."

Something I notice about Imperial supporters, they're either naive or lacking in their history. See what I did there?

Both you and your quoted piece are incorrect. Legion was correct about "The Empire needs Skyrim in order to have a fighting chance against the Thalmor." Very incorrect, however, in that, "The Stormcloaks are too stubborn to see that, and only care about Talos. Skyrim is doomed without the Empire in the end." No, Skyrim has no need of Imperials. And Nords do not only care about Talos. They care about the fact that their families are being ripped apart. They care about the fact that the power that SHOULD be protecting their loved ones (the Empire) has done nothing except allow it to happen. If the Empire is too weak to prevent it. Nords have no use for Imperials. If the Empire refuses to prevent it, they're no better than the Thalmor. Simple man. Really simple. And the argument that, they should just by time, while they're loved ones are being tortured and murdered, yeah bro that's totally logical.....again, I asked another here and got no response. If you believe that kind of mess, what is your opinion on the Srebrenica Massacre? Real life example of a government allowing paramilitary forces slaughter citizens.

And you realize many believe that the assault on Normandy would have gone completely different if Hitler had not been such a pissant about being woken up early?

Imperials are far from perfect. As I've said before neither side is right. Actually if it was a true leader for the Stormcloaks, not someone who wants the throne, I would support them.
Frankly, this civil war is alot like WWII.

Here's something noteworthy: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

The Thalmor consider Ulfric an asset. They used him and need the war to carry on, so that the Empire remains preoccupied and weakened. It is also mentioned that the Stormcloaks should not win either, but there is much greater emphasis on the consequences of Ulfric's death as it "would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim."

Actually, supporting the Stormcloaks is treason. At least against the Empire.

As for your reasons to join the Stormcloaks:
Honor and integrity: Honestly I don't see any of them having much of that in this war, bacause it is a war. And in war you do whatever is needed to win, like blackmailing, bribery and espionage. Neither of these are very honorable, but they happen anyway.

The Empire is a puppet: As mentioned earlier in the thread the Thalmor fear an Imperial victory and it would weaken their presence there. Doesn't sound like a puppet to me.

Roggvir: I agree that he should not have been executed, but once again this is not an Imperial thing. Jarl Skald is a Stormcloak supporter and threaten two of his own citizen with execution if they try to ask for help from the Legion.

My reasons to join the Stormcloaks:

Even if the Empire is not a puppet of the Thalmor it have proved to be unable to rule and keep the peace. Titus Mede II may be a military genius, but he is not skilled enough politically and he is too weary of war(hence the large disadvantages the Empire got in the WGC). The Mede Empire have been in decline since it was founded.

The Dominion are long term strategists. Adding another openly hostile nation to the world who is more than willing to attack them will force them to think short term, somethign they don't seem to be very skilled at considering the full invasion of Cyrodiil was not a planed event and it ended with the decimation of the Aldmeri forces.

Skyrim is in a strategicly good position to avoid an invasion from the Dominion. For the Dominion to invade Skyrim they will either have to move on land through Cyrodiil or Hammerfell, which both would start a war, or they have to take the sea route. If they are going to take the sea route they will either have their fleet pass by Hammerfell or they will have to sail around the entire continent. Three of the four options put them in danger of starting a new war and the last one will likely destroy their soldiers morale, not to mention that Skyrim would have heard about it by then and began preparing for an invasion.
The other thing about Skyrim is that should the Dominion manage to place an army in Skyrim the land itself would be an obstacle, with its cold weather, mountains and now dragons. The Stormcloaks have fever resources than the Empire, but by using guerille warfare they have been able to keep the Civil War in a stalemate against perhaps the most skilled general in the Imperial Army(judging by the fact that the Emperor send him to solve problems). That they could contain an Aldmeri invasion seems likely.

And the fact is that Torygg had the opportunity to stand down and surrender the title he was not worthy of to a more capable person. He accepted the challenge, chose to fight, and so he died.

The ban was only truly enforced after the rebellion started according to Hadvar's uncle.

Any general this oblivious to the workings of his underlings in direct proximity, is not fit to be general. Its idiots like this that let a nuke fly half way across the midwest without anyone knowing it was the real thing. Yeah, bet the news didn't report that one eh?

When? Who stated it?

Have you ever stole a horse in Skyrim? City guards, even without the White-Gold Concordat, Can kill you if they wish to.

Lokir wasn't a Storm, yes, but he was still a thief. Maybe he wanted to leave Skyrim because he was scared of the war, or who knows why. And since he was caught with the Storms, Tullius decided to kill him too, because criminals are all the same to them.

If saying you're not a rebel and wearing regular clothes made you not a Stormcloak, then nobody would wear the uniform. There's no way to tell if someone's a Stormcloak or not just by looking at them.
General Tullius was on the other side of the damned village when the Captain ordered your execution; the injustice was done without his knowing.

You said it before, the thalmor are good strategist, if Skyrim become independent, what to stop them to not pit the empire against Skyrim? Of course this is hypothetical.

And I doubt there will be war of succession, if there is aheir, but this is the question, is there any heir?

Yes, but your character was sentenced to death without due process of law. And for the person that said that there is nothing honorable about war, it is the cause for going into the war that is honorable. Ulfric started the war in order to defend his people. He wasnt willing to sacrifice his traditions and his faith to an oppressor no matter the circumstance. Thats the difference between courage and cowardice.

He might've just convinced himself that he fights for his people. Both sides are unneccessary murderers.

The opposite, if he's defending the people he won't start the civil war, because the civil war started everyone still has their own shrine of Talos.

Well

No, that's not a good idea. However, there's http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Oblivion in the series that fits this description perfectly.