As soon as you start Skyrim, you are immediatly involved in Skyrim's Civil War and are forced to choose sides. If you choose the Stormcloaks, then you made the right decision and acted on honor and integrity. The Empire, at the beginning of Skyrim, was trying to execute your character, a presumably innocent bystander, in order to enforce their corrupt laws estabished by the Thalmor. The Empire are nothing but the puppets of the Thalmor, too weak to protect themselves, their people, and their faith. Talos, who in Elder Scrolls Lore is actually a God, united all of Tamriel and ascended to godhood. The jealous Thalmor made Talos worship punishable by death in order to preserve their elven superiority. The corruption of the empire is seen immediatly when that Imperial Officer orders you to the headsman's block without mercy or consideration of your innocence. Standing with Ulfric and the Stormcloaks is the right decision because you are ultimatly overthrowing a corrupt empire in order to overthrow the tyranni of the Aldmeri Dominion and safeguarding Skyrim from oppression as Ysgramor did before you. Even though the Stormcloaks are racist against non-nords at the beginning, the Empire is much worse because the Aldmeri Dominion are willing to order ethnic cleansings to ensure that Mer are the dominant race. If you are a race other than Nord and complete the Stormcloak campaign, you basically prove to all of Skyrim that the other races are not inferior and must be treated with respect. Ulfric Stormcloak killed Toryg in fair combat. Toryg could have declined the dual and stepped down from the throw if he chose it. Rogvir was still executed to opening the door for Ulfric even though niether Ulfric nor Rogvir committed a crime. In conclusion, supporting the Stormcloaks is not treason. How can it be treason when the Thalmor(and the twisted remnants of the Empire) are not sovereign over Skyrim?

Empire is a puppet eh? They want to kill Ulfric and end the war, which is against the Thalmor wish, sure a puppet.

Rogvir get killed? Gatekeeper is the first line of defense in case of invasion, they can't afford have a gatekeeper that side with the enemy, sure they can just remove him from his post, but his execution is justified.

Honor? Neither Empire nor stormcloak is honorable, the stormcloaks attack a neutral hold, whiterun, of course the empire will attack too, but that's not honorable.

And what will happen to your "free" Skyrim once the Aldmeri Dominion come rolling in? The Empire needs Skyrim in order to have a fighting chance against the Thalmor. You think the Empire like having to listen to the Thalmor? The Empire plan to fight back against them, but they need Skyrim to do it. The Stormcloaks are too stubborn to see that, and only care about Talos. Skyrim is doomed without the Empire in the end. All of man needs to stand together to stop the Thalmor so they can restore order back to Tamriel. Including the worshipping of Talos.

Ulfric has already been captured and wouldn't even still be alive if Alduin hadn't shown up at Helgen. Him and Galmar are not only the weaker choice, I'm convinced their the dumber leaders.

Who can blame them for that? You said it yourself, they are too weak. What are they supposed to do, continue to fight the Thalmor and die right down to the last child? The choice to give in to the Thalmor was made for the greater good, and the greater good being thousands of innocent lives could be spared.


I think it's rather presumptuous to say that the one imperial officer who ordered your execution is the sole embodiment of the entire empires way of doing things. As far as I'm concerned she's just some power tripping beotch. If you think that every Imperial reflects the core values of the empire, what of Hadvar? He's a great guy. Even Tullius isn't half bad "gaurds, get the townspeople to saftey..."


I agree on everything said here except for the "corrupt empire" part. I don't think they're corrupt, so much as they are doing all they can to avoid any more bloody conflicts. "the empire is going to put you down, and restore the peace"


Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think what happened between Torygg and Ulfric is completely known, and whoever tells one side is heavily biased.


Well, Skyrim is a part of the empire and is subject to its laws, and as it happened the signing of the WGC allowed Thalmor to roam freely throughout the land, purging those who defied their rules.

But all that being said, I take the Stormcloaks side, just because the Imperials are too much like "The Man", you know? Nobody likes (or should like) The Man. I make these points because I'm just passing time waiting for my Louis CK video to finish downloading.

Cheers

1. Ulfric decided to kill the High King, despite the High King holding Ulfric in high regard and would likely have said "Sure, I'll go against the Empire" had Ulfirc ASKED.

2. Ulfric and the Stormcloaks committed treason (taking up arms against the Empire), as well as outright murder of the High King. "Honorable dual" or not, it's very iffy when the challenger is a veteran with a near-unique power while the defender has barely reached advlthood. It's close to (if not actual) abuse of the letter of the law to violate the spirit of the law.

3. Raising arms against whoever controls the strings, Thalmor or Empire, is treason. No two ways about it. All the leaders of the US Revolution would have been tried for treason despite their refusal to acknowledge continued sovereignty of the British Empire over them.

4. Roderic knowingly aided a known criminal and murderer.

5. The Thalmor's dossier on Ulfirc lists him as someone they can still use to their advantage.

6. Please, no more of these threads of "EMPIRE/STORMCLOAKS ARE TEH BEST EVAR!!!!" It just leads to arguments and pre-flaming.

If Torygg couldn't handle the throne of the Empire and held Ulfric in high reverance, the he should have stepped down from the throne. And it is known what happened between them because Torygg himself tells you in Sovngarde. The Empire is weak because of Torygg and his indecision. A true man knows his limitations. He chose to fight Ulfric despite Ulfric bein an experience military leader and possesing Unrelenting Force.

Skyrim would probably do a lot like Hammerfell. They'd be far better off. The Empire can barely feed their own troops. Skyrim has no need for the empire. The Empire needs Skyrim.

And that Imperial Officer at the beginning IS the embodiment of the empire. General Tullius was RIGHT there when she ordered you to the chopping block. You were not a traitor to the Empire but you were still be killed just for being there. That sounds pretty corrupt to me.

Trying to say that captain is the embodiment of the empires ideas is as ridiculous as trying to say Rolff Stone-Fist and Angrenor Once-Honored are the embodiment of the Stormcloaks, racist drunks. It's nothing more than hilarious over-generalizations from people that refuse to look at any positive from the other side.

But general Tullius was right there and didnt do squat to save you despite your innocence.

You make it sound like he was standing over the captains shoulder.

Did General Tulius know you'renot on the list? For all we know it's possible he didn't ehar Hadvar's "he's not on the list"

Why should be bother saving some scrub that was found near the enemy when you are trying to execute one of your enemy leaders before one of your other enemies make some justification to let him go? I severly doubt that Ulfric would let you go either. Neither side has any reason at all to assume your just some innocent party and as much as it upsets people that it happened, thats just one of the many many ugly parts of war.

He was when she called you up. He was staring right at you when you marched to the headsman's block. And before that, she was practically shouting and Tullius was just selectivly trying not to hear. And if it was such a violation of the Empire's standards, then Hadvar should have immediatly reported her to a higher ranking superior, specifically General Tullius who was standing but 20 feet away.

Ummm yeah....as someone with military experience, any time a general is within eye shot, they're over your shoulder. Its very clear who is in charge.

Yes, but he wasn't. He should have been, but he just had his eyes on Ulfric the whole time.

Again, what makes you think that if it were instead the Stormcloaks they would be any more understanding to your plight?

"oh ya, fair combat, let's duel, oh you meant with swords? Sorry man, I thought we were both gonna use shouts!" ya, real fair duel, Ulfric is a skimmed milk drinker

Eh fine, I'll concede on that one, I'm not loyal to the empire anyway I just support the empire because they have more chance against the dominion.

Because Ulfric never held a public execution of anyone in Windhelm and yet the Empire held two of them. Ulfric is willing to set his own country free. That doesnt make him a traitor but rather a Martyr.

Got any Tangible proof that he's never executed anyone?

And they dont stand a better chance against the Thalmor because they are aiding them in the process. They are ultimatly making the enemies of Skyrim stronger by fueling the Thalmor with natural resources while wiping out all those trying to stand up for their people(the stormcloak). Last time i checked, aiding the enemies and hurting those supporting your cause is counterintuitive.

No, but he keeps all the argonians outside the city, put the dark elves in a ghetto, and a non-nord helping him win would probably do little to change his mind.

Oh good. I'm so glad he does it all behind close doors. That way nobody knows who died and for what reasons. Ulfric's enemies just... disappear. How convenient for him.