why stormcloaks are the wrong side : V - Skyrim

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:40 am

As I understood it they tried to make him their puppet, but after the Markarth they lost control over him and see him as a threat if he manages to unite Skyrim.

Exactly, hence why they're resorting to indirect contact and manipulation only.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:07 am

So you would rather put up with an autocracy than risk the dangers of freedom? I would love to know your nationality. (Never mind; I'm pretty sure I've guessed correctly.)

Me? Im Irish!

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:01 pm

Exactly, hence why they're resorting to indirect contact and manipulation only.

Does the Imperial side ever answer how they figured out to ambush the Stormcloaks? Ralof suspects the Thalmor were involved and it seems somewhat reasonable. Their wizards could have magic to that effect.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:06 am

Exactly, hence why they're resorting to indirect contact and manipulation only.

Which won't serve them after the civil war is over since he will then be entirely hostile towards them or he will be dead. Sounds like their plans backfired to me.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:59 am

Does the Imperial side ever answer how they figured out to ambush the Stormcloaks?

I don't think so.

Ralof suspects the Thalmor were involved and it seems somewhat reasonable. Their wizards could have magic to that effect.

I'm actually not sure of the power of divination magic and the like in Elder Scrolls lore, but I'm not going to rule it out. More likely they just had spies and informants.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:06 am

Me? Im Irish!

No, sorry, not you. I meant the OP. I checked and ... yep, exactly as I'd guessed. The world makes sense now.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:34 am

Which won't serve them after the civil war is over since he will then be entirely hostile towards them. Sounds like their plans backfired to me.

Ah But you see They Want the war to drag on as Long as possible...If Ulfric wins...Both Him And The Empire are gonna be weakened....Giving them the Chance to STRIKE!

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:38 pm

Does the Imperial side ever answer how they figured out to ambush the Stormcloaks? Ralof suspects the Thalmor were involved and it seems somewhat reasonable. Their wizards could have magic to that effect.

I don't think it was a thalmor. Probably a traitor amongst his ranks. The thalmor were at the execution to make sure Ulfric escaped.

Ah But you see They Want the war to drag on as Long as possible...If Ulfric wins...Both Him And The Empire are gonna be weakened....Giving them the Chance to STRIKE!

So since you can defeat the imperials almost immediately...why is this a point against anything?

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:58 pm

Does the Imperial side ever answer how they figured out to ambush the Stormcloaks? Ralof suspects the Thalmor were involved and it seems somewhat reasonable. Their wizards could have magic to that effect.

They probably were not involved, they wouldn't want the war to end until Skyrim was bled dry.

OT: How do Delphine and Ulfric know each other?

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:41 am

From what I've managed to deduce in the game the Stormcloaks are basically Nazis, while the Imperials are Thalmor bootlickers. Both sides are equally terrible, but after raiding the embassy I decided to side with the Imperials because I'm not such a fan of the way Ulfric treats the people who aren't Nordic, and additionally because a civil war-free Empire is exactly what the Thalmor don't want.

Either way, both sides are bad, you just have to pick one that you think svcks less. (A bit like our real-world politics, really)

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:09 pm

They probably were not involved, they wouldn't want the war to end until Skyrim was bled dry.

OT: How do Delphine and Ulfric know each other?

WHAT!? Figures I Hated That Dumb Foolish, Stupid Girl but I DId not Know She Met Ulfric before...

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:56 pm

Spoiler

Maven has innocent people permanently jailed or killed because they get in the way of her business or money-making. Now as the Jarl of Riften her methods are even more legitimatized. She only cares for herself and her own power, and it doesn't matter how many innocent citizens have to have their lives ruined so she can get it. As Jarl she is only more dangerous. Riften will be fine... as long as every single person in it devotes their lives to appeasing Maven and doesn't get in her way.

Spoiler

Laila Law-Giver is a complete and utter moron. She is content letting Maven Black Briar deal with the Thieves Guild "appropriately." Anyways, siding with the Stormcloaks puts the equally corrupt (equal to Maven anyways) Silverblood family on the throne. The people who manipulate the Forsworn into murdering anyone who gets in their way, or better yet decapitate young girls when they ask to take the place of their father whose only crime was merely speaking with a Forsworn (oh and the father goes to labor in mines for the rest of his life as a "reward")

Regardless of who the player sides with, both Markarth and Riften are heavily under the influence of very corrupt people.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:30 pm

OT: How do Delphine and Ulfric know each other?

I didn't know they did.

If they did, I would guess they met during the great war. Ulfric was a pretty big war hero, you know.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:09 am

I'll side with the guys who aren't doing mass roundups and summary executions.

Group A offers you a quick death at the headsman.
Group B offers FREEEEDOOOOOOM

I can see how that's tough for people.

Actually

Group A offers you a quick death because they think you ARE group B.
Group B offers you a quick death via Group A.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:31 am

Ah But you see They Want the war to drag on as Long as possible...If Ulfric wins...Both Him And The Empire are gonna be weakened....Giving them the Chance to STRIKE!

And yet, the quick and decisive victory that come within the year really messes the plan up, regardless of who wins the civil war.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:41 pm

Spoiler

Laila Law-Giver is a complete and utter moron. She is content letting Maven Black Briar deal with the Thieves Guild "appropriately." Anyways, siding with the Stormcloaks puts the equally corrupt (equal to Maven anyways) Silverblood family on the throne. The people who manipulate the Forsworn into murdering anyone who gets in their way, or better yet decapitate young girls when they ask to take the place of their father whose only crime was merely speaking with a Forsworn (oh and the father goes to labor in mines for the rest of his life as a "reward")

Regardless of who the player sides with, both Markarth and Riften are heavily under the influence of very corrupt people.

At least you can fix Markarth. Maven's essential.

Silver-Blood? Oh ho ho.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:33 pm

No, sorry, not you. I meant the OP. I checked and ... yep, exactly as I'd guessed. The world makes sense now.

I'm irish to and the empire offers freedom only reason the banned talos worship is because they need to bide their time with the thalmar until they can figure out how to defeat them.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:39 am

I'm irish to and the empire offers freedom only reason the banned talos worship is because they need to bide their time with the thalmar until they can figure out how to defeat them.

I posted this in another thread, but I'll repost here, just 'cause:

The argument that the Empire is "gathering its strength" and that everyone should support them is fallacious. While the Empire is gathering its strength, so is the Aldmeri Dominion, and the Thalmor are tightening their grip on the Empire day by day.

Imperial hatred of the Thalmor amounts to posturing and the wringing of hands.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:14 pm

I posted this in another thread, but I'll repost here, just 'cause:

The argument that the Empire is "gathering its strength" and that everyone should support them is fallacious. While the Empire is gathering its strength, so is the Aldmeri Dominion, and the Thalmor are tightening their grip on the Empire day by day.

Imperial hatred of the Thalmor amounts to posturing and the wringing of hands.

By supporting the stormcloaks you weaken the only force that can stand against the thalmar and win.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:34 pm

By supporting the stormcloaks you weaken the only force that can stand against the thalmar and win.

Sorry, not seeing it. If Skyrim remains under Imperial (Thalmor) rule, it will grow weaker and weaker, just like the Empire has grown weaker and weaker since they signed the White-Gold Concordant.

If your hand has gangreen, you'd best amputate it. You'll lose some blood, sure, but doing nothing to "gather your strength to fight it" will just see the infection spread.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:30 pm

At least you can fix Markarth. Maven's essential.

Silver-Blood? Oh ho ho.

Thongvor? Pretty sure he's essential, he's the one who becomes Jarl (not his brother, the one involved in the Cidhna mine quest).

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:08 pm

By supporting the stormcloaks you weaken the only force that can stand against the thalmar and win.

I hardly see how they're weakening Hammerfall.

Seriously though, the argument gets nowhere. You say "the Empire is holding the Thalmor back!" And I say "they're helping the Thalmor and getting weaker by the moment."

Frankly, the Empire is falling apart. It is a dead limb and needs to be amputated before the rot spreads. It shot itself in the foot and instead of fixing the problem, it kept firing. The leg needs to come off now.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:34 am

By supporting the stormcloaks you weaken the only force that can stand against the thalmar and win.

Maybe, but when they march on Alinor they will sign a peace treaty with the Thalmor that gives them the right to kill off all the humans.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:26 am

Imperial hatred of the Thalmor amounts to posturing and the wringing of hands.

And I don't think I'm the only one who believes an axe to the skull is a much more efficient way of displaying displeasure.

The bottom line for me is pretty simple. Give me freedom or give me death.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:45 pm

And I don't think I'm the only one who believes an axe to the skull is a much more efficient way of displaying displeasure.

It certainly would make family gatherings more lively.