I was initially undecided, then walked into Windhelm, saw the 2 racists harassing the Dunmer woman and went off to sign up with the Empire...

I can't really see any of my characters wanting to go Stormcloak, in the end I've decided that my orc barbarian will probably end up grudgingly going with them.

Yes. There's only three names left.

The Empire needs Skyrim. Skyrim does NOT need the Empire.

If the Imperials hadn't been such cowards and surrendered in the Great War just because they lost their capital city (even though things were turning in their favor in spite of this), then they wouldn't have to take time to "recover."

Everything that's happening in Skyrim, and throught Tamriel, is due to the Empire's weakness. They're slowly falling apart, and are trying to drag Skyrim down with them.

He IS A Total Badass....

This!!!! *like*

Not really. If you've checked the lore forums, you'll note many of the lore folk don't think too kindly of the new empire and tend to favor the stormcloaks. But then again, these people actually know why Talos is so important.

Exactly. The Thalmor fear a united, independent Skyrim and they fear a united Empire. The only logical conclution is that the Thalmor can only win as long as the civil war isn't ended, which it probably is(in lore I mean).

I lost all respect for Tullius when I did the Stormcloak questline. We invaded Solitude, went to find him and he had

:foodndrink:

In my views they do not. That's also part of the beauty of Skyrim and life. I feel that people should be free to roam and do as they please without judgement from others unless they are directly harming someone. Supremacists such as the Stormcloaks don't fit that view for me.

Ah yes. To set the record straight neither side is interested in freedom of speech or religion. Especially considering in the Elder Scrolls religion actually matters. If I worship Talos I serve a different purpose then the person who may worship Dibella. Now Daedra on the other had are a different matter all together.. :devil: :drag: /MolagBal

Then you're a hypocrite. Freedom of speech and religion only work if you're willing to allow people their own views and beliefs.

You see, it's oversimplifications like that that really dilute actual, meaningful choice into fairy tale black and white stories between cliche heroes and pantomime villains. Is that really what you want to play? You find that enjoyable?

Luckily, that's not how the civil war is. Bethesda knows enough to offer us moral ambiguity and grayness even when people like you want to play braveheart: the movie. Do you even know any of the lore behind it all?

Skyrim does need the Empire. Most of Skyrims food and trade comes with the Empire.

Did Skyrim even get touched in the Great war? How would the Nords react if the Altmer invaded windhelm?
They would take it back fast.
If the Empire had waited instead of Acted, Skyrim would have been reached by the Altmer.

Who are the Stormcloaks really helping by attacking the Empire? Themselves or the Thalmor?

Dude, I love this....saves me the time :brokencomputer:

the op has no point what-so-ever (everything he brought up has been disproven already so i wont go into it) other than he thinks the emprie is good. the emprie is going to lose teh war at this rate, now they are jsut giving the thalmor a chance to regan their strength. i agree ulfric's poilicy of with me or aganst me is a little uncalled for, but he is the leader needed to beat the thalmor, he left his training the the grey beards to help defend his homeland, he gave up everything, so he will be willing to die for his home. i would much rather fight beside a true warrior, someone who will put his life on the line for what he believes in, than some imperial pig who rolls over to omnicidle maniacs like mede did

Eh, while it was bad those guys don't really represent the Stormcloaks besides as ex-veterans. I'm not sure why people always think of the Dunmer first when Ulfric outright banned the Argonians from Windhelm so that they have to live in a little warren on the docks where they work for 1/10th the wage of a TRUE SON/DAUGHTER OF SKYRIM. Of course then some snot-brained Nord has the gall to say the Dunmer aren't assimilating well, and that they should look to the Argonians for proper behavior. Yeah... that works out so well for them.

Seeing racism become policy is what really seals the deal with me.

You'd make a good dictator. You basically said "I feel that people should be free to roam and do as they please without judgement from others" as long as their ideals don't offend mine.

This is flat out wrong.



Wrong again. The Thalmor were already spreading their forces thin in the Great War. Had they attacked Skyrim, the results would have been the same as when Napolean or Hitler invaded Russia.




Umm, considering that the Thalmor themselves have stated that a quick, decisive Stormcloak victory is undesirable, I think the answer is obvious, there.

What? I saw tons of farms in Skyrim, and they seem very self sufficient. I think you're a bit confused. Most of the Empire's trade comes from Skyrim atm.


Not only that, but they'd march out and kill every elf they saw until they reached alinor.


The empire waited for 150 years instead of acting. The current situation is a direct result of them not taking any action.


Everyone. The ban of talos is why the world started to end. Talos holds back the next kalpa and NEEDS worship and recognition. Not just privately either, in the world of TES symbolism is extremely important. The removal of Talos from the nine reduced Talos's power greatly, even if they still privately worshipped him.

I am not a hypocrite. They deserve to exist and they deserve to voice their opinions. But anything past that is an encroachment of "everyone's" freedoms. The philosophical argument "to be intolerant of intolerance is still intolerance" is a complete fallible idea. That's to say the atheism is a religion or that bald is a hair color.

Ulfric isnt working with the Thalmor, the Thalmor just influenced him with wrong information about the Imperials

Quote from another user in another thread:

"Okay basically the Elves and Empire and went at it in a war, the Empire was on the losing side so they signed a peace treaty, called teh White Gold Concordant. One of the points was that the worship of Talos was banned because the dirty Mer-Folk don't think a mere man could become a God (they were wrong but thats another discussion entirely). So it was outlawed, but obviously the dirty Mer-Folk, being the dirty folk they are couldn't possibly police the entirerity of the rest of teh Empire. In Skyrim there was literally no regualtion on it, so everyone opnely worshipped Talos. But then the Jarl Of Markarth got the stupid Ulfric Stormcloak, and the damn Forsworn to rebel, he promised open worship and defience of the Elves. The rebellion failed and the Elves went on red alert heavily policing Skyrim and Markarth in particular. (that's why there are so many dirty Mer-Folk in Markarth). Then the stupid Ulfric started teh Stormcloak rebellion.

Basciallt the Empire signed the treaty and is pretending to not allow Talos worship in order to buy time to get their strength back and go at it for round 2 with the dirty Mer-Folk. History Lesson Over, class dismissed."




If anything, this is all the Jarl of Markarth's fault.
Ulfric's kind of justified in doing what he did, he was wrongly imprisoned much like you are in the Forsworm Conspiracy quest, to cover up the Jarl's foul play.

Mede HAD TO! If He refused to sigh the Peace treaty MANKIND WAS ATrisk! Play The Db QUESTLINE YOU Will see how much Valor Mede Actually HAS! MEDE SACRIFICED EVERYTHING HIS FAMILY HONOR, HIS PUBLIC IMAGES! Ulfric IS WHY THE THALMOR ARE IN SKYRIM!

In this post, you are correct. However, you were being a hypocrite when you agreed that they deserved to be oppressed and killed by the Empire.