why stormcloaks are the wrong side

Post » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:00 pm

I was initially undecided, then walked into Windhelm, saw the 2 racists harassing the Dunmer woman and went off to sign up with the Empire...

I can't really see any of my characters wanting to go Stormcloak, in the end I've decided that my orc barbarian will probably end up grudgingly going with them.
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Jason Wolf
 
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Post » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:09 pm

Still Have Your List?

Yes. There's only three names left.

Spoiler
I think it only topped at 6 names. The Silver-Blood in Markarth is surprisingly killable. And the headsman in Solitude is ridiculously trusting.
Then there was Miuri. Pretty girl, but wanting your best friend dead? I feel offended just being asked!

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Nick Jase Mason
 
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Post » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:39 pm

The Empire cannot start another great war yet as it is not ready. Time is needed, They must build, They must prepare.
The day of reckoning is approching for the Thalmor.

The Stormcloaks are the only reason why the Thalmor are even in Skyrim.
Indeed one is helping them, But its not the Empire.



The Empire needs Skyrim. Skyrim does NOT need the Empire.

If the Imperials hadn't been such cowards and surrendered in the Great War just because they lost their capital city (even though things were turning in their favor in spite of this), then they wouldn't have to take time to "recover."

Everything that's happening in Skyrim, and throught Tamriel, is due to the Empire's weakness. They're slowly falling apart, and are trying to drag Skyrim down with them.
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Julie Serebrekoff
 
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Post » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:19 pm

Neither did Titus mede II.

He IS A Total Badass....
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Soku Nyorah
 
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Post » Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:21 am

There is no wrong side... unless it's the Thalmor...


This!!!! *like*
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Undisclosed Desires
 
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Post » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:54 am

Most experienced TES players side up with The Empire, most people who are new to the series with Skyrim join the stormcloaks, why? Because the empire, especially Tullius, are huge cocks in skyrim.

But, I think everyone that has played Daggerfall and Oblivion feels some kind of bonding with the Empire. That's why I'll always support them.


Not really. If you've checked the lore forums, you'll note many of the lore folk don't think too kindly of the new empire and tend to favor the stormcloaks. But then again, these people actually know why Talos is so important.
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x_JeNnY_x
 
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Post » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:40 am

Ulfgar is and unwitting asset of the Thalmor as long as he doesn't win the civil war.

Anyone winning the civil war is bad for the Thalmor.

If the Empire wins, it makes the empire stronger, allowing them to recover their legions faster and become stronger than ever. Legions full of veteran troops from the north with an unparalleled hatred for the Thalmor when the time comes.

If Stormcloaks win the civil war, the Thalmor will be utterly destroyed in Skyrim. Both the Dominion and the Empire will be weaker for it, but Skyrim could still be allies with the empire against the dominion.

Exactly. The Thalmor fear a united, independent Skyrim and they fear a united Empire. The only logical conclution is that the Thalmor can only win as long as the civil war isn't ended, which it probably is(in lore I mean).
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Ice Fire
 
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Post » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:07 pm

DO NOT MESS WITH TULLIUS! If You actually talk to Him Its Reavealed That He has A Burning Hatred for The Thalmor! And He is very Nice to his Men!


I lost all respect for Tullius when I did the Stormcloak questline. We invaded Solitude, went to find him and he had

Spoiler
GIVEN UP. Like he was just sitting in a chair sad and feeling sorry for herself. Even his second-in-command was disgusted with him. And when you're about to kill him he's like, "Can't I just surrender and live?" Are you kidding me? At least when you fight Ulfric he leaps off his throne and shouts lighting in your face like a badass, Tullius just whimpered in a chair all sad and giving up because he was losing. I'm sure all of those imperial soldiers under his command who fought to the death would feel like fools after seeing that.

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Kari Depp
 
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Post » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:31 pm

Not really. If you've checked the lore forums, you'll note many of the lore folk don't think too kindly of the new empire and tend to favor the stormcloaks. But then again, these people actually know why Talos is so important.


:foodndrink:
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roxxii lenaghan
 
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Post » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:12 pm

So racists don't have a right to freedom of religion and speech, and the Empire is justified in oppressing and killing them because they're racists?

In my views they do not. That's also part of the beauty of Skyrim and life. I feel that people should be free to roam and do as they please without judgement from others unless they are directly harming someone. Supremacists such as the Stormcloaks don't fit that view for me.
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Tamara Dost
 
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Post » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:04 pm

So racists don't have a right to freedom of religion and speech, and the Empire is justified in oppressing and killing them because they're racists?


Ah yes. To set the record straight neither side is interested in freedom of speech or religion. Especially considering in the Elder Scrolls religion actually matters. If I worship Talos I serve a different purpose then the person who may worship Dibella. Now Daedra on the other had are a different matter all together.. :devil: :drag: /MolagBal
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Soraya Davy
 
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Post » Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:50 am

In my views they do not. That's also part of the beauty of Skyrim and life. I feel that people should be free to roam and do as they please without judgement from others unless they are directly harming someone. Supremacists such as the Stormcloaks don't fit that view for me.


Then you're a hypocrite. Freedom of speech and religion only work if you're willing to allow people their own views and beliefs.
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Evaa
 
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Post » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:05 pm

I'll side with the guys who aren't doing mass roundups and summary executions.

Group A offers you a quick death at the headsman.
Group B offers FREEEEDOOOOOOM

I can see how that's tough for people.

You see, it's oversimplifications like that that really dilute actual, meaningful choice into fairy tale black and white stories between cliche heroes and pantomime villains. Is that really what you want to play? You find that enjoyable?

Luckily, that's not how the civil war is. Bethesda knows enough to offer us moral ambiguity and grayness even when people like you want to play braveheart: the movie. Do you even know any of the lore behind it all?
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maria Dwyer
 
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Post » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:09 am

The Empire needs Skyrim. Skyrim does NOT need the Empire.

If the Imperials hadn't been such cowards and surrendered in the Great War just because they lost their capital city (even though things were turning in their favor in spite of this), then they wouldn't have to take time to "recover."

Everything that's happening in Skyrim, and throught Tamriel, is due to the Empire's weakness. They're slowly falling apart, and are trying to drag Skyrim down with them.

Skyrim does need the Empire. Most of Skyrims food and trade comes with the Empire.

Did Skyrim even get touched in the Great war? How would the Nords react if the Altmer invaded windhelm?
They would take it back fast.
If the Empire had waited instead of Acted, Skyrim would have been reached by the Altmer.

Who are the Stormcloaks really helping by attacking the Empire? Themselves or the Thalmor?
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Stephanie Nieves
 
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Post » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:08 pm

Christ.


Dude, I love this....saves me the time :brokencomputer:
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marie breen
 
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Post » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:49 pm

I dunno. He has a point. Ulfric is aiming to be High King because he wants to be High King, shove out the Thalmor and to push the empire from Skyrim, but the empire doesn't follow their traditions so he was branded a criminal after winning the challenge. He fought in the Great War, sure. But does this make him right, good, or just? Hell no. It just makes his views ideal for the current event. Though those loyal to the empire(like me) are still reminiscing the Septim Dynasty, but those days are gone. It will be as it always has been. The Empire will sunder and heal, gain a new Emperor and a new Dynasty with its own enemies(Could be Hammerfell or High Rock some day). This is assuming the Dark Brotherhood doesn't bugger off the new Emperor like they did a long time ago. However, the Empire is right to defend Skyrim's loyal populace from Ulfric due to his arrogant, brash and stupid way of saying "You're either with me or against me". Not to forget I'd rather pay homage to an impoverished Emperor than be forced to fight for some brash snowback. XD

the op has no point what-so-ever (everything he brought up has been disproven already so i wont go into it) other than he thinks the emprie is good. the emprie is going to lose teh war at this rate, now they are jsut giving the thalmor a chance to regan their strength. i agree ulfric's poilicy of with me or aganst me is a little uncalled for, but he is the leader needed to beat the thalmor, he left his training the the grey beards to help defend his homeland, he gave up everything, so he will be willing to die for his home. i would much rather fight beside a true warrior, someone who will put his life on the line for what he believes in, than some imperial pig who rolls over to omnicidle maniacs like mede did
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HARDHEAD
 
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Post » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:20 pm

I was initially undecided, then walked into Windhelm, saw the 2 racists harassing the Dunmer woman and went off to sign up with the Empire...


Eh, while it was bad those guys don't really represent the Stormcloaks besides as ex-veterans. I'm not sure why people always think of the Dunmer first when Ulfric outright banned the Argonians from Windhelm so that they have to live in a little warren on the docks where they work for 1/10th the wage of a TRUE SON/DAUGHTER OF SKYRIM. Of course then some snot-brained Nord has the gall to say the Dunmer aren't assimilating well, and that they should look to the Argonians for proper behavior. Yeah... that works out so well for them.

Seeing racism become policy is what really seals the deal with me.
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Natalie Harvey
 
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Post » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:48 pm

In my views they do not. That's also part of the beauty of Skyrim and life. I feel that people should be free to roam and do as they please without judgement from others unless they are directly harming someone. Supremacists such as the Stormcloaks don't fit that view for me.

You'd make a good dictator. You basically said "I feel that people should be free to roam and do as they please without judgement from others" as long as their ideals don't offend mine.
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Red Sauce
 
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Post » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:27 pm

Skyrim does need the Empire. Most of Skyrims food and trade comes with the Empire.


This is flat out wrong.

Did Skyrim even get touched in the Great war? How would the Nords react if the Altmer invaded windhelm?
They would take it back fast.
If the Empire had waited instead of Acted, Skyrim would have been reached by the Altmer.


Wrong again. The Thalmor were already spreading their forces thin in the Great War. Had they attacked Skyrim, the results would have been the same as when Napolean or Hitler invaded Russia.

Who are the Stormcloaks really helping by attacking the Empire? Themselves or the Thalmor?



Umm, considering that the Thalmor themselves have stated that a quick, decisive Stormcloak victory is undesirable, I think the answer is obvious, there.
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Gwen
 
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Post » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:22 am

Skyrim does need the Empire. Most of Skyrims food and trade comes with the Empire.

What? I saw tons of farms in Skyrim, and they seem very self sufficient. I think you're a bit confused. Most of the Empire's trade comes from Skyrim atm.

Did Skyrim even get touched in the Great war? How would the Nords react if the Altmer invaded windhelm?
They would take it back fast.

Not only that, but they'd march out and kill every elf they saw until they reached alinor.

If the Empire had waited instead of Acted, Skyrim would have been reached by the Altmer.

The empire waited for 150 years instead of acting. The current situation is a direct result of them not taking any action.

Who are the Stormcloaks really helping by attacking the Empire? Themselves or the Thalmor?

Everyone. The ban of talos is why the world started to end. Talos holds back the next kalpa and NEEDS worship and recognition. Not just privately either, in the world of TES symbolism is extremely important. The removal of Talos from the nine reduced Talos's power greatly, even if they still privately worshipped him.
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naome duncan
 
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Post » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:31 pm

Then you're a hypocrite. Freedom of speech and religion only work if you're willing to allow people their own views and beliefs.

I am not a hypocrite. They deserve to exist and they deserve to voice their opinions. But anything past that is an encroachment of "everyone's" freedoms. The philosophical argument "to be intolerant of intolerance is still intolerance" is a complete fallible idea. That's to say the atheism is a religion or that bald is a hair color.
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Jason King
 
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Post » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:16 am

Ulfric isnt working with the Thalmor, the Thalmor just influenced him with wrong information about the Imperials
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vicki kitterman
 
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Post » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:22 pm

Quote from another user in another thread:

"Okay basically the Elves and Empire and went at it in a war, the Empire was on the losing side so they signed a peace treaty, called teh White Gold Concordant. One of the points was that the worship of Talos was banned because the dirty Mer-Folk don't think a mere man could become a God (they were wrong but thats another discussion entirely). So it was outlawed, but obviously the dirty Mer-Folk, being the dirty folk they are couldn't possibly police the entirerity of the rest of teh Empire. In Skyrim there was literally no regualtion on it, so everyone opnely worshipped Talos. But then the Jarl Of Markarth got the stupid Ulfric Stormcloak, and the damn Forsworn to rebel, he promised open worship and defience of the Elves. The rebellion failed and the Elves went on red alert heavily policing Skyrim and Markarth in particular. (that's why there are so many dirty Mer-Folk in Markarth). Then the stupid Ulfric started teh Stormcloak rebellion.

Basciallt the Empire signed the treaty and is pretending to not allow Talos worship in order to buy time to get their strength back and go at it for round 2 with the dirty Mer-Folk. History Lesson Over, class dismissed."




If anything, this is all the Jarl of Markarth's fault.
Ulfric's kind of justified in doing what he did, he was wrongly imprisoned much like you are in the Forsworm Conspiracy quest, to cover up the Jarl's foul play.
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Wayne Cole
 
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Post » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:54 am

the op has no point what-so-ever (everything he brought up has been disproven already so i wont go into it) other than he thinks the emprie is good. the emprie is going to lose teh war at this rate, now they are jsut giving the thalmor a chance to regan their strength. i agree ulfric's poilicy of with me or aganst me is a little uncalled for, but he is the leader needed to beat the thalmor, he left his training the the grey beards to help defend his homeland, he gave up everything, so he will be willing to die for his home. i would much rather fight beside a true warrior, someone who will put his life on the line for what he believes in, than some imperial pig who rolls over to omnicidle maniacs like mede did

Mede HAD TO! If He refused to sigh the Peace treaty MANKIND WAS ATrisk! Play The Db QUESTLINE YOU Will see how much Valor Mede Actually HAS! MEDE SACRIFICED EVERYTHING HIS FAMILY HONOR, HIS PUBLIC IMAGES! Ulfric IS WHY THE THALMOR ARE IN SKYRIM!
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Ally Chimienti
 
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Post » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:38 am

I am not a hypocrite. They deserve to exist and they deserve to voice their opinions. But anything past that is an encroachment of "everyone's" freedoms. The philosophical argument "to be intolerant of intolerance is still intolerance" is a complete fallible idea. That's to say the atheism is a religion or that bald is a hair color.


In this post, you are correct. However, you were being a hypocrite when you agreed that they deserved to be oppressed and killed by the Empire.
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Lisa Robb
 
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