I am against what is happening in the realm. Innocent people like the Thief (who wasn't guilty of being a Stormcloak), or myself (whose name was not even on thier list) being sentenced to death. Since this happens under Tulius's (Empire's) rule I can't side with Tulius. The Thalmor have outlawed the workship of Talos (whose blessing can be received just like those of the any other divines in the game), which clearly marks as Talos as a valid god, so I can't be expected to side with Thalmor either. I take side with the truth.

Ulfric offers people freedom to workship Talos and probably will make amends of ensuring no miscarriage of justice , so I side with him. He challenged the current High King in fair one-on-one combat and won.

Poor Roggvir was put to death for doing what he considered to be right and traditional. So yeah I side with Ulfric , because his cause is Just.

The imperials will further support a scum like Maven Black Briar as their Jarl of Riften, that strengthens my belief that Ulfric is right.

Long Live the Rebel Alliance.

I disagree with you. Opinions are great aren't they?

Oh great, here comes another civil war debate.

Honestly Cider I am not bothered anymore.

That's partially why I sided with him as well. If I were to post my other reasons it would become a civil war debate.

Yes, lets worhip Talos. And all the corpses of all the people who died in the stupid war he launched.
And also les persecute the imperial supporters, so now,there is no more Thalmor, bur we are, ready to punish anyone who thinks different! Mpf..

I know not what he did, he is a god whose blessing can be recieved just like those of other divines which marks him as their equal.

It doesn't change the fact that he's a divine.

I'm just going to point out that you insult Maven but fail to realize that the Stormcloaks put in a family that abuses it's workers, forces them to live in a closed off space that is essentially a foul smelling dump, they capture prisoners and force them to mine not to mention they use a really bad "three strikes your out" policy


I'm not saying Maven is a good person, she isn't, but when you look at it at least she treats her workers like people and not tools that can be used and thrown away, she is the lesser evil compared to the Silver-bloods.

I haven't had that close encounters with Stormcloaks I guess (I haven't joined either faction yet). But Atleast Stormcloaks don't frame innocent people to further their cause do they ? I think that is a greater evil, while Stormcloaks are lesser evil...evil nonetheless...

Isn't the same thing happening in Jails all over the world today ? Bad crowd, bad living conditions....

+1 internet cookies for cider. awesome picture, also.

Where to begin...

1) You illegally crossed the border into Skyrim during times of war, They didn't take any chances.

2) The Empire does not willing support the Thalmor nor did they enforce the outlaw of Talos worship until the Thalmor came to Skyrim.

3) The higher ups in the Empire know they will be going to war with the Thalmor again in the near future. They wouldn't be preparing for it if they just did what the Thalmor tell them. NO ONE LIKES THE THALMOR
4) Titus Mede II had no choice to sign the Thalmors treaty, it was either sign it or be destroyed. He made the choice which allowed him to reman and rearm (mistake on the part of the Thalmor for not destroying the Empire)

5) Ulfric is only out for Ulfric and is only using the war and misguiding propaganda to gain public approval and ultimately the throne. Ulfric can rot in Oblivion. He will betray any terms as long as it makes him personally more pwerful (The way of the Voice is a perfect ex)

6) If Ulfric is killed before going to Sovngarde he can be seen there. When you speak with him he talks about how he regrets the war and how it only weakened man.

7) Ulfric is a racist pig. He hates all Mer and Beast races and barely tolerates non-Nord men.

Ulfric Stormcloak is trash, the Stormcloaks are trash, Stormcloak supporters are trash. The entire Stromcloak army will be crushed under the steel boot of the Empire. Then those Thalmor dogs are next... long live the Empire.

Roggvir is your only point.. he didn't deserve his death.

The Empire hasn't really framed anyone and yes they use the heavily criticized three strike penalty that America has, which many other countries see as idiotic.

It never states anywhere that he's a racist. This argument gets so old.

Why do you always bring RL into arguments? it doesn't help at all since RL isn't a fantasy game.

Heres your proof, actions speak louder than words. Talk to the Mer and Beast races in Windhelm and theres your proof. Ulfric is trash. Deal with it.

way i look at it, both parties want the same thing, freedom to worship talos and to be free of the thalmor, right? so why not support the one that, you know.... has been around way longer and actually stands a chance of taking them down?

She works with the most evil guild in the history of the Elder Scrolls.

You will lose this argument. I can almost promise that.

The problem with the Civil war... The Nords have abandoned their old ways! They have been seduced by Mer to worship false Gods!


Alduin who is First born of Akatosh, he who is Akatosh, is the only God that should be worshipped.

Right but she still treats her workers better then the silver-bloods from what we see, again I'm not saying she is good because she clearly isn't but she isn't as bad as the Silver-bloods.

WHY ARE WE STILL DEBATING THIS?! both parties svck, take the lesser of the two evils in your eyes and never post one of these again! its getting really old now....

Racist, bigoted, prejudice. All means that lead to the same end. Hes scum.

The worst racist in the entire stormcloak army is Rolff and the worst thing he does is yell at them at night. It's admitted by the opressed Dunmer. Don't like it? Tough. It's canon.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/439516/Skyrim/windhelmracist1.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/439516/Skyrim/windhelmracist2.jpg

For every argument in favour of Ulfric there is also one in favour of the empire that's how the game is written so you can be happy with ether choice. That means that these civil war threads can never be won by anyone they just go on and on and on.