I would explain it: People hate fallout 3 because of all the above reasons as people said. The deepest underlying reason is that they were in love with the original fallouts. Like myself they had absolutely amazing memories of these games, for the time the depth and detail in the worlds was amazing. YOu could shape the ending and world by your actions.

To an extent people wanted the latest game to be as groundbreaking in this moment, which of course is next to impossible. If you look at it realistically it has trumped the originals in depth and detail, though some parts it has lost out due to how our society takes more interest in games. The prostitution and grittiness of the original would be hard to get away with now i think, though i hope they can do it in the new one!

Also there is the fact it isnt made by the original people, for example as a starwars fan i dont really like any of the books, i think they are badly written and the characters never act like they should. The authors make up stupid back story which doesnt suit the universe at all etc, its only my opinion but its how i feel so i hate them (well hate is strong, i just think they are sh@t).

Its like when George lucas remade starwars. He was obviously making most of it up, and for me ruined some aspects of what you imagined, ie it was always amazing to imagine what bobba fett was, then they made him a normal australian... For me the new starwars are quite poor, but ask someoen who wasnt brought up on the originals they will think the opposite.

Its down to what you are brought up on as to what is right.

I am slightly different though, in that if the films were good, ie the last new starwars, revenge of the sith, then i do like them, i dontn hate for hates sake.

Simillarly with fallout 3 i love it. I posted somewhere a thanks to the designers for making it 3D. For me as a fan it was amazing to see the world first hand in so much detail, and this overshadows the inability to get married, the massive anti climix to paying for the only prosttute in the game who "works" and for being able to easily kill mutants fairly early on.

The thing which really interests me now is how the hardcoe fans, i wont call them true fans because a true fan would like fallout 3. I would love to see what they will make of the new fallout being developed by a lot of the original team. It will be nice to see if that allows them to get over their anger and admit its good.

Because the other thing is the people who hate it will have the game, and will have played it to death for sure...

Ironically, most of the people that seem to dislike Fallout 3 happen to be hardcoe fans of Fallout 1 or 2, and feel betrayed one way or the other, or players who came in expecting a "pure" RPG OR FPS, but not both, and got confused in FO3. Sometimes, it's just weirdos who appear to harbor some kind of silly grudge against Bethesda for some reason.


Then there's the people who expect to be sat on a knee and be read a bedtime story about elves and fairies and dwarves, as it were, or just the kind of players that prefer being carried throughout a game "on rails" so they stick to the main plot hook, using a lot of Fast-Travel, and they end up missing some of the best parts of FO3, like old Harold, Agatha, the bomber, any of the really quirky characters you meet by chance, the sheer sense of awe-inspiring exploration while listening to Inon Zur's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuYwAB9p8Lk&feature=related or the logs and holotapes from the day the bombs fell.


Although I am mostly an "old-school" player myself, somehow I never actually got around to playing FO1 or 2, but I've played just about every D&D CRPG since the `80s and lots of JRPGs, and http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1069258 and I think it's one of the best games of the double-O decade as well as the http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1071599


but as for the "hate," yes, just go to the Dragon Age forums, or any other popular game's, and you'll notice more complaints than wanton praise.

Actually to "hate" anything, you do need a good reason, and more often than not that reason has little to do with the object of hate.

Well, of course, what I meant was you don't need a reason not to do with the game.

fair enough

I'll give you my old rants about it
not to prove that any previous Fallout games are better
but to prove why Fallout 3 isn't.


it looks like a monkey, it smells like a monkey, it's

Rants about Fallout 3

"I'm looking for my father, middle-aged guy, have you seen him?"

This summarizes the extent of "roleplaying" you will do during conversations in Fallout 3.

Now, if someone; anyone walked up to me on the street and asked "I'm looking for my father, middle-aged guy, have you seen him?"
"middle-aged guy?"
No.
Let's try that again;
"middle-aged-guy"
How many characters in Fallout 3, does actually represent a "middle-aged-guy"?
I'm not going with specific numbers here, but that's ALOT of people.

That summarizes dialouge in Fallout 3.
Yes, sure there's alot of people, having "alot" to say.
But that sentence summarizes all dialouge.
Crap.

The game-world then?
I mean, you have the "whole" D.C. to wander about.
Well, it so happens that D.C. is covered, literally with "encampments" and "villages" and other "random" places to visit.
There are huge bridges, huge burned down-skyscraqers, abandoned houses, schools and what-have-you-not.
That would all be great, were it not for the fact that the game-world of Fallout 3, was made by seemingly the same idiots, trying to create the dialouge.
The buildings in Fallout 3 are exactly the same as that dialouge-phrase; generic.
That would be a-ok, considering the fact that this is a "huge open-game-world", but if you ever try to enter a building, which seems to be nearly intact, you will soon find that (insert random percentage-here) doors does not open. Sure there are doors and sure there are boarded up-windows and sure it does look "intriguing", but no. You can NOT enter.
Try bringing down the console and type "tcl" (toggle-clipping-mode), which gives you the ability to "fly", then look down on... ooohhh let's say; Tenpenny towers.
What do you see?
A big hole.
A big nothing.
A roof?
No.
Nothing.
Same goes for all major buildings which are taller than the average super-mutant.
They have no roof.
There are no ladders.
And "there are no roofs".

While this would not bother the "casual-gamer-who-only-wanders-where-Bethesda-wants-them-to", the "rest of us", who actually want to explore will be severely limited to entering the generic-buildings, which contain nothing of interest, except if you're lucky and find.... "a metal-spoon" or "a can of beans".

The buildings that you CAN enter, consist of load-zones. God forbid that there would be even the slightest possibility of entering a house, by simply opening the door and blasting everything inside and then smoothly run away for cover.
No.
You are loaded into a completely different zone. It is not even on the world-map (if you look at it in the editor or (once again) "tcl" your way around.
This is (of course) done so that everything will run smoothly on your computer/console.
But it completely breaks immersion.

There are PLENTY of items to find. Everything from a simple "iron" to "forks".
These items have one purpose. The "rock-it-launcher"
Yay. I can shoot forks.
My gratitude is endless.

The AI (or lack there-of) makes up for interesting encounters.
My first play-through, I was at level 2.
I quickly made my way downtown-DC and encountered Super Mutants.
HOLY CRAP! They're HUGE!
AND they have MINIGUNS!
I myself was armed with a 10mm.
BUT
Since Super-Mutants have a brain the size of.... a Bethesda-story-line person, all I needed do was; jump into cover: Super-Mutant empties magazine: Jump out from cover: VATS: Aim for head: Kill.

That's how you deal with any and all encounters throughout the game.

The enemy won't even have a chance to repell, since you are using VATS and if you have only 3 shots, rest assure, eventhough you're only level 2 at LEAST 1 of them will hit straight in the head.
Depending on distance? Yes. But not very much so.

The raiders (being one of the most prominent enemies you will encounter) are again showing the brilliance of what a Bethesda employee considers Artificial Intelligence.
I have looked at it through the editor (GECK) and they mainly have one (1) purpose in life: to kill you whilst die trying.
They do this, by simply charging at you.
This would all be fine, should this be your generic NES-System game (oooh let's say... Super Mario Bros 1), but in this time, day and age, where games like Gears of War, FEAR, Crysis and oooooh so many others have proven that Artificial Intelligence is NOT something to be taken lightly, Bethesda (once again) proves that monkey's with typewriters would come up with basically the same results.

The story-line then?
"I'm looking for my father"
"I'm looking for my father"....
Curse you Star Wars; "Luke, I AM your father"
Ever since the first time I booted up the game, I thought to myself.
No [censored] way.
I am NOT looking for my father.
But lo and behold; your father has the solution to all the problems of the wastelands, he has found a way to purify water!!!! (surprise!!!) and his research must not fall into the wrong hands and it is ooooh so important that he purifies the water since (ouch) you get 1+ rad from wading/swimming in it and you get up to 8+ rads for drinking it.
Oh woe is us, woe is us.

The beggars, whom are very well placed outside the "major cities" can't drink any more "irradiated [censored]", so give them pure water and booom. KARMA++++++++++
Kill them and booom. KARMA---------
Wow. Truly an achievment.
So that boils down to;
I go into Megaton; kill every living being (except for children, whom are the incarnations of Christ, thus invulnarable), then plunder their supplies for pure water, go outside and lo and behold, there is the beggar; I give him all my water and... I AM the savior.
My karma goes up. Aaaaall the way up (depending on amount of water)
Tadaaa.
Sure I'm a good guy; I gave him water!
*sigh*

So exploring the "subways" of D.C. then?
Wow... Just... wow....
Bethesda actually managed to create dungeons in a post-apocalyptic-wasteland.
Note; DUNGEONS.
Where does that come to mind? "Dungeons and Dragons".
So I have my dungeons, where's my "insert generic Orc here"; oooh there he is; now re-incarnated as... A ghoul.
The "tunnels" (hereby refered to as what they are; dungeons) are cluttered with land-mines, raiders and rats as well.
Truly makes for an interesting cast.
There is of-course the occasional turret, which will try to wipe you out, but before it can even start blinking you go; VATS!
The dungeons in Daggerfall was the highlight of Bethesda's dungeon-crawling.
In Morrowind they were narrow, but still interesting at points. (ie. Dwemer ruins)
In Oblivion, they were a chore. Mixed up with; Oblvion-Escapades, where you would crawl through other-looking dungeons, still generic.
So what made Daggerfall's dungeons the best out there?
Because they were;
A) Random.
B) HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE.
C) Made in a time, where people were still impressed by Eye of the Beholder and Lands of Lore.

And in true Bethesda style, we have (since Daggerfall) the "go kill rats" quest.
This, I hope is an ironic homage to their earlier games. Because a "rat-killing-quest" in this time and age... Is NOT ok.

The variety of weapons, you say?
Well, you have what every other shooter has.
A "not-so-wide-arsenal-at-your-selection"
Just more ammo.
God forbid that the casual-gamer would run out of ammo.
Oh and of course you have the Fatman.
Which shoots mini-nukes.
Yes.
Nukes.
Hmmm...
Let me rephrase that.
The Fatman, shoots miniature Atomic Bombs.
But don't worry.
As long as it lands ten feet away from you, you won't get harmed.
Nukes.
Need I say more?

The BB gun, is of course only there because it has been there since "Wastelands" and has continued it's uselessness throughout the series.
Yay.

There's plenty of cars still around; nuclear-powered cars.
Which has not exploded, during the immense bombing of D.C.
Nope.
They are nuclear, but they are still standing there.
Juuuust standing there.
Oh and they go "BOOOM" if you shoot at them.
Impressive.
A BB gun pellet can blow up a nuclear bomb, but other nuclear bombs could not.
Once again, why are you using monkeys, to compensate for your lack of logic, Bethesda?

The NPC's then?
They have no personality. No unique appearences (considering what faces you can create with the GECK, I am very surprised that they only used the-in-game-editor, to create the same generic-looking faces).
They are dead.
Sure it's the wastelands, but come on...
Bittercup is a splendid example of this.
Our protagonist is 21 years old, she is about 16.
Now I KNOW that all you "not old enough to play, but mum bought me the game anyways" want to have some sort of "interaction" with her.
But no.
She says a bunch of stuff of how not fitting in and then you can "choose" to be nice to her and... she'll give you "stuff"
There are prosttutes (at least one) and YES!!!! YOU CAN SLEEP WITH HER!!!!
Note; Sleep.
Note: With.
Note: Not six. Not ON TOP.
Sleep. With.
And oh yeah... she keeps her clothes on.

One of my favorite parts of the game, is however not in the lack of AI, nor character interaction, nor "exploring".... Nooo.. My favorite part is; Invisible walls.
So what "are" invisible walls, you say?

Well... I stand behind a ruined wall and lo and behold, there is a crack in it. A quite large one. Actually it's more like a big hole.
I carefully "aim" down the sight (Ironsight??? No way) at my designated target. Fire.
Nothing.
Why nothing?
Because there's an invisble wall, where there should be a hole.
Compare this to STALKER, where I shoot people through tiny cracks in the floor (if I'm upstairs) and you get the point.
NO, Casual gamer, you are NOT allowed to shoot from behind cover. *slaps on fingers* BAD!
You HAVE TO jump OUT from cover and VATS, THEN shoot.
Why?
Monkeys.

Soooo.. I'm downtown D.C. and in front of me is a large pile of rubble.
Remnants of a "once great building".
Behind this rubble is the place I need to go.
I can of course walk around the whole place and spend an hour finding the path Bethesda has chosen for me, OR I can climb the rubble(?)
No.
When I do climb the rubble (having altered my jump-height), I find that there is nothing behind the rubble.
Nothing?
Nothing.
A big empty space of... Nothing.
A hole in the world, you might say.
As with the lack of roof-tops, there is a lack of world-space.
In the middle of D.C.
I (once again) "tcl" my way through and find that these "sky-scraqers" are only there for show.
They are not buildings. They are walls. Hiding.... Nothing.

So how about companions? (ie. followers); well... there's Dogmeat and a cast of wannabe's that can agree to join you in your questing for your father.
Wow.
Dogmeat has the AI of... I'm not going to insult the canines, nor the monkeys here, so let's say... the AI of... A certain Bethesda Employee, trying to let the world know that Fallout 3 is the best there is!
He barks. And growls. And barks. And growls.
The followers for hire then?
Well, you can give them simple commands;
Use this and that tactic (ie. stay close, stay away)
Use this and that weapon (ie. close combat, ranged combat)
Do they have an interesting story of their own?
A purpose to which they are roaming these wastelands looking for.... "their" fathers?
No.
They are.... ... as with what's behind the walls of sky-scraqers in downtown D.C.; empty.
Will they heal you, if you're down? No.
Will they go where you tell them to? No.
Will they tell you anything of value? No.
Will they serve as cannon-fodder? Yes.
And not very good at it.

Fallout 3, is not made for the fans (Interplay's old logo comes to mind; "By gamers, for gamers")
Fallout 3 is made to make money.
Come on? That can't be it? You say.
No.
I was just kidding.
A good friend of mine loves his computer-games, especially UT2k4
He loves UT2k4, because he ONLY plays it at "novice" skill-level
He only plays it at novice, because he does not like to lose.
THAT is Fallout 3.
If you don't like to lose, buy it, for the love of Bethesda, BUY IT!
It's the perfect "couch-game"
Hey, you can even hook up your very own 360-controller to your PC and use that!
Perfect!
Now hook it up to the TV!
Perfect.
Now lean back, get some popcorn and grab a beer (or several, don't matter, you don't need to aim precise in this game, thanks to VATS) and enjoy.
But don't ever try to brag with your "achievment" of playing through the game.
It is NOT an achievment.
It is as much of an achievment as playing through the first level of UT2k4 on Novice and only dying once.
And if you think THAT is something to brag about, then you are surrounded by teenagers, whose parents won't let them play Counter-Strike.

What summarizes this multi(million?billion?) project then?
Is it Fallout?
Now, I am NOT a Fallout fanatic.
I have played through Fallout 1. Several times. I love Fallout 1, for what it is.
I didn't take too much liking for Fallout 2, nor tactics.
I have Fallout - Brotherhood of Steel and Fallout 1 and 2 in my bookshelf.
Brotherhood of Steel is the closest thing Fallout 3, will ever come to Fallout.
Alot of cursing, alot of nonsense "action" and a bunch of monkeys.
Shallow.
That is a word that can summarize so many things, but yet is so rarely used, since it is such a strong word.
Shallow.

I have played 700+ hours (probably more) of Fallout 3 and I have explored and I have modded (yes, I have made several mods for this game) and I have downloaded mods and I have tweaked and I have turned the game upside down and I have been replaying the whole story-line time and time again. I have done this game in every way possible.
And then finally, I came to the realisation.
This is not just NOT Fallout.
This is NOT an RPG.
This is NOT a shooter.
This is a joke.
Yes.
This is all a weird bizarre alternate reality where reviewers are actually praising what's behind those sky-scraqers.
Nothing.
This is a world, where "gamer's" are whom the company decides them to be.
This is a world, where "serious" reviewers get payed off, for writing good reviews, based on ONE (1) 30-odd-hours playthrough of the game, labeling it as "the greatest game of all time!"
This is the reality where skill means nothing and "achievments" on your Xbox-live account, proves how good a gamer you are.
This is the reality where monkeys have finally learned to type.
This is the world of money.
Money.
M-O-N-E-Y!

No.
If you TRULY want to prove your worth and TRULY want to impress your "gamer-friends", STOP playing UT2k4 on Novice.
Get yourself a copy of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Shadow of Chernobyl, patch it, install Oblivion Lost and Arsenal mods and play it through on HELL difficulty.
THAT's an achievment.
But most important of all; THAT's immersion.

Whether I will continue to make mods for Fallout 3 or not, only time will tell.

Fallout 3 has ALOT of potential.
ALOT!
With the GECK, us modders are able to change so many things about the game.
But it's the same thing as with a Barbie-doll.
No matter how much fancy equipment you buy for her, no matter how many clothes you have for her, she is still in-animate.
And always will be.

note
this rant was written about a year ago
I have since played even more (a couple of hundred hours)
and I have updated my mods
and I have concluded
all I wrote
is true

I have stepped out of the Fallout 3 modding community
I have given others permission to use my mods to their liking
it has been well received; and many have asked me to join them in an effort to "fix" Fallout 3

I may yet live to see the day, when this game reaches a state, where it is playable
I may yet live to regret my words
I just sincerely doubt it.

^ and that's what you get. That's what I meant about having issues from beyond the product.

how so?

keep in mind that I am the original author of "No_Fast_Travel" mod, which is used in many compilations
and keep in mind that I have more than 1,000+ hours with this game now
and keep in mind, that I have supported (and continue to support) Bethesda in their other franchises
why?

because they are good at what they do
but they don't do Fallout.

I've played all of them as well. I got bored of all of them within a week... I've played like 700+ hours and 13 different characters on FO3, no thats not an exaggeration.

My point, Lord_Santa, was that you can create rants like that on just about every game you want. Because every game have flaws. But being good at ranting and being sarcastic doesn't autmotically make what you write correct. Especially not when several of your complaints can be found in Fallout 1 too.

And why in the world would you bother playing a game for 1000+ hours if you dislike it that much? That's insane. It reminds me of a great quote: "I must be the biggest fan there is - no one hates it more than me."

Name ONE recent RPG or FPS that lets you do everything Fallout 3 does, nevermind doing it better.

Fallout 1 and 2's storyline is amazingly good.

HOWEVER, anyone who says Fallout 1 or 2 is an overall good game, is lying. Fallout 1 and 2 both have crappy graphics, crappy gameplay, and crappy movement. Fallout 2 to 3 made one of the biggest jumps of improvement in bethesda history. Which is why Fallout 3 is now more popular than any RPG/Adventure and Sci-Fi game put together.

"I must be the biggest fan there is - no one hates it more than me."
that.

and please do point out what I've written that is not correct

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Shadow of Chernobyl, Clear Sky and Call of Pripyat

Erm....both the originals were made in the ninties.....yes, we had computers back then children. Of course the graphics aren't going to look as good. They were turn based, hence the movement, though not sure why you thought gameplay was crappy too.



What do you mean Bethesda history? Beth didn't make the originals, Black Isle did.



@Lord_Santa: Half of the 'flaws' you rant about are called Engine Limitations and making it so it'll run on a console Plus you keep mentioning TCL as if it's an exploration ability, it's not it's a debug tool. You're not supposed to be able to see the rooftops from above, so why bother putting the detail in if no one is supposed to see it.

But yes, Beth does need to work on dialogue.

Hmmmm and the STALKER games offer limitless freedom and don't restrict you to specific paths through most of the area. 'Hello mister little fence I should be able to simply step over but can't and mister radiation barrier'

I found them too restrictive with very little scope for going where I wanted half the time. Plus seem to remember a hidious graphic bug that forced me to play in a window for ages till it was apparently fixed.

I do not want to turn this thread into a "yes! no!"-thread, so I won't take this line of point too far. Sufficient to say that Fawkes had more backstory and personality than all followers in Fallout 1 combined. You complain about Dogmeat having only "woof waf" to say - well, even with that he was improved from Fallout 1, where you couldn't interact with him at all. (And how much more should you be able to interact with a dog anyway?) A lot of the other stuff is just a matter of opinion. For instance, I did find several NPCs having quite a bit of personality, I thought using the metro tunnels was a good, creative idea (maybe a tad overused, but that isn't an argument against it being a Fallout-game) and I found the world very atmospheric and immersive. Much, much more so than the "look at my cursor point move from point A to point B on my overworld map* did in Fallout 1.

I don't have a problem with people not liking Fallout 3. Different strokes, different folks. But statemens like "It's not a Fallout game" or "It's not worth the box it came in" (Or the version in this thread: "Could have been made by monkeys") go way past constructive criticism and into the territory of irrational ranting and hating.

This. QFT.



Thank you! It seems hardly anybody on the forums realize that the company determines the canon, not the fans.

Some people really like one game over another, on developer over another, one style of game-play over another. It happens. Particularly if there are earlier incarnations of the game in the series that were well-loved. So it frustrates some fans of the earlier games when a developer whose methodology they aren't keen on takes over the franchise. A lot of fans of the Elder Scrolls series would be pretty vocal and upset if Bethesda sold the IP to Bioware. Now Bioware might make a cool, linear, party-based fun game that would have you adventuring around somewhere on Nirn... but it wouldn't be open world, it would be a third person view, linear story that had an ending. People would freak - long and loudly. Even if the game was terrific, it would not be the same as if Bethesda had developed the game.


On a moderate-y note - We have rules about flaming, cross-forum trolling and censor avoidance. Some posts were getting a bit sneer-y about "elitists". Don't cross the line where you are ragging on other forums. And don't avoid the auto-censor.


Also, @ Lord Santa... when I don't like a game... I don't put 700 hours into it. Complain all you want, but you sort of kill your own argument for how "flawed" the game is, vanilla or modded, if you logged that many hours. (Also, make sure you spoiler tagged any plot stuff in your long post on the prior page.)

Right.

Does S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

• have a seamless game-world, where you can see the landmarks on one end all the way from the other side of the map, like the Washington Monument?
  
• let you grab arbitrary junk and move it with realistic physics?
  
• let you craft weapons?
  
• let you target specific parts of an enemy's body?
  
• let you plant items in an NPC's inventory?
  
• let you use the environment to your advantage? like exploding cars or firing a laser into jets of flammable gas.
  
• let you shoot thrown weapons like grenades?
  
• let you equip your party members and decide their tactics somewhat?
  
• allow you numerous ways to complete an objective? i.e. getting the information from Moriarty, or solving the Tenpenny Tower crisis, and lots of other quests.
  
• require you to maintain your equipment?
  
• require you to maintain a balance between items that boost your HP and abilities and the risks that come with using them?
  
• have radio broadcasts with news that are updated on what you did?
  
• have dynamic NPCs each with their own schedules depending on the time of day or night?
  
• have NPCs that seamlessly travel across the entire game-world, and that you can follow or escort if you wanted to?
  
• have NPCs that comment on what you're looking at?
  
• have NPCs that behave differently depending on what you've done? i.e. even minor details like if you've been going around asking the same thing of everyone, the others will actually mention that when you come around to them.
  
• have NPCs and enemies that can pick up and use any weapons lying around on their own?
  
• have SMART AI that attempts to dodge fire and can work out complex paths to get to wherever you're hiding? (most of the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. videos show ridiculously-stupid enemies, no better than the Grunts in the original DOOM.)
  
• have characters like Three-Dog or Eden or Autumn or Moriarty or Fawkes or Harold?
  
• have enemies that actually make sense and not some random horror mumbo-jumbo?

Back to you. and that's not even near the whole list.

In any case, I reassert: someone who takes up a campaign of hate for anything most likely has issues that result from outside the product itself. If you care about the series, let your opinion be heard in the New Vegas forum and back it up with rationale that other players can find agreeable, so you can make some difference in what's to come rather than lament over what's done and which many enjoy.

You clearly haven't played STALKER. The majority of those are "Yes", and the ones that are no either don't fit into the setting, or are fallout3-specific.

STALKER is an FPS more than an RPG. But it's by far one of the best FPS' of the last 10 years, and one of the most atmospheric games ever made. Fallout 3 could learn a lot from it.

as long as there will be people, there will be opinions
I did not come here to bash anyone, never my intention

this was a rant; hence "rants about fallout 3"

I am fully aware of the limitations of the Gamebryo engine, also the Netimmerse engine, so please don't even try

but if an engine is not capable of pulling off a game, another engine should be used

there was absolutely nothing (from what I've tried in the tech-demo) wrong with Van Buren engine
but once again, it is a matter of opinion

I am not a rabid Fallout fan, far from it

I have however been gaming since 83' and know games

that may be irrelevant in the greater context, but please don't mistake me for some teenager trying to start a flame-war

I've been a rabid fan, when it comes to Bethesda's Elder Scrolls series; and I continue to defend Oblivion, even if I don't care for it
because I care for the franchise

I do realize that this rant pushed some nerves and it was supposed to

all reviews I've read just keep praising it to the sky
I gave an in-depth look into the limitations of the game (due to the choice of engine and design choices)
like it or not, if you stop comparing and just listen to the rant itself you will know that I am talking from experience with this particular game

I am not here to be holier than thou; and I know that ever game has it flaws (especially my favorite Rags to Riches, which has no ending); but someone asked the question why Fallout 3 was hated by some people
I never once stated that I hate this game

and please don't say that the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games were limited, if you've only played one; and apparently not even properly patched.

but enough is enough; and I respect opinions, as long as they are backed up by something
I have yet to find an answer that satisfies me, nor disproves what I have said

in respect for the Bethesda forums, I will not debate this further, since it will most likely end up with name-calling and other things, which are not appropriate

you asked for an opinion. you got it.

if you don't want opinions, don't ask for them.

:edit

Leydenne

sorry for not covering with spoilers, I am not fully familiar with the forum functions, please feel free to edit as you wish
and the reason I put so many hours into it, is because I loved it.
nobody will ever understand how deeply I have cared for this game
nobody except for my girlfriend who missed me in bed those late nights
I am retired and have lots of time
I modded Fallout 3 before the GECK arrived
but as so many relationships in real-life, it took a turn

I did not stop loving it
it stopped loving me.

No, but that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-88N0lOmzY&hd=1 of one of the series looks rather silly, like a forced attempt to be scary which you have to play along with in order for it to work, IMO, and certainly not anything that's not been done in any Resident Evil game already. The Feral Ghouls in FO3 spiked more adrenaline than that midget could. I checked out some other gameplay videos where the NPCs that were supposed to be your allies just stood by while you were attacked by some scripted encounter near the beginning, or the "Controllers" that just went on and on in a mindless merry-go-round around a pillar while you peppered them with lead.

That said, I do like the idea behind STALKER and those games are on my playlist.

and FO3 has some quite good FPS elements as well as being an RPG. Fact remains: FO3 lets you do more than any [recent] RPG or FPS does.

Anyway, you got to love it whenthe opponents of FO3 seem to disregard those reasons when it comes to bashing FO3 for not having something that doesn't "fit into the setting" or is FO1/2-specific. -_-

please stop
you have not tried the games
you have no opinion to back it up

You still have yet to answer each of the questions regarding STALKER vs. FO3, Lord_Santa.

BTW,
if that somehow lends more weight to an opinion, then I'd like you to meet my 48K Sinclair ZX Spectrum with Manic Miner and Sabre Wulf and loads of other cassette tapes still gathering dust up in the attic :hugs:

I have to ask though,is that why you don't like FO3 anymore?

but you're right,This I believe is where we do need to stop. :nope:

C-64 will never die
only the players

although I am becoming vastly more interested in the Spectrum these days (mainly due to the demo-scene)

albeit I'll admit that Fairlight plays better on the Spectrum (128k) I'd still go with Dizzy games on the C-64 (or Amiga)

:hugs: back

:edit

and no.
I do not answer those questions, because they have no relevance to this thread
try the games, it will answer your questions

:edit 2

sorry for off-topic

I really enjoy Fallout 3, and I am one of the ones who was really hoping for a continuation of Fallout 1 and 2.

The biggest problem, in my opinion, is the complete lack of any realistic feeling to Fallout 3. It just doesn't seem right and there are so many flaws in the game world. (Note, not talking about bugs in the game, flaws in the game world)

Rather than make a realistic game world, and go from there, the game producers force feed a post-apocalyptic clich? down your throat to a point where it starts to become overly unrealistic. I think many old fans would have been fine with the first person view if it had better incorporated the world that had been developed in the first fallout.

I really hope this is not done with the next Fallout, but I fear it will be.