I never really cared for athletics that much because I never really noticed any benefits from it that the speed attribute didn't do a much better job at giving. I am going to miss the acrobatics skill though but losing it isn't enough to dull my excitement for the game.

don't have a problem with it
they were pretty broken in morrowind and oblivion anyways
floating around a like a balloon, and walking at the speed of sound
I frequently lowered by acro just for a sense of gravity.

Yeah leveling up by just running a mile is a really deep and complex system, they should've kept it!

No, they shouldn't.

I'm pretty certain most of the effects will return in perks (under sneak or a general part, or whatever).

Athletics and acrobatics had it coming. Athletics was as useless a skill as Swimming was in Daggerfall. Acrobatics was meh also since you couldn't grab on to ledges plus you would end up jumping all over the place trying to spam level and it's just silly looking. There should be no reason to be disappointed with the removal of these skills or attributes because really it only comes down to "It was in a previous game" (usually Morrowind...) even if it wasn't particularly useful. Mediocre features in a game doesn't improve the game, it just brings the game closer to mediocrity. The mediocre things from before were melded into the game out of sight and replaced with features that actually noticeably impact the game and are useful. Mainly people need to be more open to change instead of holding on to the past or else the game will never move forward, which it seems it is moving forward just like it did with Oblivion. Oblivion was a step in the right direction though it was marred a bit with a few experimental features that didn't work out perfectly. Those have been remedied.

Thats not the reason, the reason is because everyone used it, it was force on you, it made no sense. You play the game you use the skills, automatically. You had no choice in the matter, how is that good for rp?

They are still there. They've been folded into perks and the three stats.

There's nothing mediocre about being fast or being able to jump high. You can make whole builds around it. Plus its been in since Arena, not Morrowind.



Not really, your the one that kept jumping, or raising your speed. If you didnt take either as a major, or specialize in them, it took dozens of hours to get athletics up high enough to be faster than you wanted to be. So you fix it, you dont cut it.

I didn't say they were in since Morrowind :pinch: I said people always say it's in a previous game and they tend to cite Morrowind.

Also, they were mediocre impacts on actual gameplay and plus the run speed and jump height were ridiculous. The run speed in Morrowind wasn't outrageous unless you had enchanted boots but jumping was worse in Morrowind than it was in Oblivion, jumping over forts in a single bound.

I don't see the run speed as an issue, in SR we will have sprint and that will be very fast.

Again, no. They did have meaningful impacts on gameplay and you could revolve game styles around those two "abilities". it was not ridiculous, if you think it is, then you think TES is ridiculous.

Many people play there character for a long period of time. And even if that was not the case, running and jump is fundamental part of the game. You automatically get better you have no choice. I do agree however that there is a place for perks to increase jumping and run speed, I don't know if SR will have them. But based on the Fallouts there will be a ton of extra perks from mods for whatever your needs are.

I don't tend to take acrobatics or athletics as major, still it's always one of the highest skills I've got.

And it's really naive to think that you could fix everything without changing it completely or cutting parts of it. But you seem like a smart person how would you fix it?

You merge the skills and have the perks effect runs speed and jump height, or you get rid of both (which they did) and put in attribute perks under stamina that could raise both (something that might happen, but has yet to be confirmed). Now it becomes 'dont like it, dont use it.' Since both abilities themselves are part of the lore. all races shouldn't have fixed run/jump ability and they shouldn't be limited by Earth limitations.

It wasn't could, everyone did. People would pick them as major skills just to level them faster and get the speed and jump height benefits. That didn't promote diversity, that inhibited diversity.



Running faster than a horse was definitely an issue. However, if sprint is what the dovahkiin was doing at the beginning of the trailer (chances are it is) then sprinting is about as fast as normal running was in Oblivion, meaning that run and walk are slower than they were in Oblivion, making the world feel even more expansive, which I think is a positive to having no athletics and speed.

Then thats their bad that they picked them for that reason, not to mention they leveled extremely slow.


Thats not an issue at all.

Why the hate?

Basically - broadly - probably unhelpfully - this is the dynamic:

Beth announces that it's cutting something.
Beth frames that announcement with a criticism of whatever it is that they're cutting as justification for cutting it.
Beth's ardent defenders, professional and amateur alike, pick up the criticism and start repeating it, essentially word for word, relentlessly.
And suddenly, this thing that nobody complained about six months ago is horrible, awful, redundant, pointless, stupid and thank Akatosh it's gone good riddance.

And that's pretty much that.

I guess I am an odd case then, I leveled those two skills up like a mad man.

One thing I didn't like about the two skills is if they were a major skill, they would make me level up too fast. My offensive major skills wouldn't level as fast as them and the enemies would upgrade while I was still at a lower fighting level.

Yeah, nobody EVER complained about how you can just bunny hop everywhere to raise acrobatics...

Except that, this is the first thing I hear from EVERYWHERE!

So you fix it, like I stated before, you dont cut it because "You cant do that on Earth".

This is "natural evolution". Nothing more. Nothing else.

The removal of attributes and athletics/acrobatics was all but confirmed months ago and we had uproars back then and there was no "creed from Bethesda" and I and others were on the same side as before and we are using the same justifications. So yeah....

As for the hate for them, there really isn't any hate but there has been plenty of talk over the years about what was wrong with athletics and acrobatics and even attributes and everyone said "fix them", well now they are fixed, their function still exists except you don't control them anymore. Instead they were replaced with shiny new features that add a whole new layer of complexity and customization and will be noticeable each time you pick one instead of it being in such little increments you don't notice it unless you open the console and raise your stats to max and then you will notice the difference.

No that was clearly much faster than average run speed in OB. Walking speed seemed similar based on what we saw, could not say in regards to running. The horse thing was an issue because the horse speed should have been upped considerably. And we don't know yet if there are perks for the lost skills or how run speed is handled in SR.

@Gpstr, I always thought Athletics and acrobatics were stupid, same with the speech skill and mercantile. Fallout fix the latter 2.

But we dont know that for sure. Until they announce that there is varying overall speeds and jump heights, that can exceed that of humans. I hope its there, but there has yet to be confirmation.

I've noticed you've made this point before, xarnac. I disagree. I think the devs of TES always to make as 'realistic' (maybe believable is a better word) a game as possible. while i am hopeful that perks and whatnot will make it possible to jump farther and higher, i would not be surprised or upset if we cant jump from the road, let's say, to the roof of a house.

Meh, I went over the trailer beginning three times and it looks pretty close to the same speed as normal run speed in Oblivion to me, just from the speed you passed the trees and the view of the dovahkiin running to the cliff edge. It definitely looks more natural than in Oblivion though lol.



Todd said that everything they did was still in the game, I would think that would be confirmation, just because they didn't say how, it doesn't mean it wasn't confirmed.