I use a heavy soldier, chinzor & mossington at mo is my fav set-up. He's my brutal sledge hammer, as any soldier should be up-front, grenades flying, suppressing the team from gaining any sort of defensive foot hold. I love all the builds but heavy was my first choice. I play all body types & all classes & the heavy does, to me, last just that lil bit longer. I can pop from cover, grenade/mow down two or three enemy team & pop back in cover to heal. Theyre not an invincible body by any means, they are, to me, for a skilled, up-front player adding some heavy support & firepower to a team, equally at home close & long range. Im thinking of trying a heavy medic, laying down suppressive fire & tossing syringes to team mates.

All that being said, I do think they require a lil adjustement, a little more health maybe, to offset the terrible speed & almost complete lack of flanking. I love the body type, but he doesnt quite feel the beast Id like him to. But thats jus my opinion. All in all, im fairly happy my "guns blazing" style of gameplay has been catered for fairly well.

Heavies are obviously not useless, but the cons far outweight the pros..

Personally as someone who mainly play as a light, I wish they would give heavies more hp.

Ive seen the people claiming that they get the "oh [censored]" feeling if they end up in a 1v1 vs a heavy, personally I get the "Ka-Ching!" feeling when I run into them on theyr own, It is hard to miss a single bullet, and easy to run circles around them, knock them over, etcetc.

Hell sometimes when I meet a heavy I simply turn back and run half way around the map (exagerating SLIGHTLY) and then hit them in the back.

From my experience no one dies as fast the heavies, they are bullet magnets.


As for the story of the heavy medic and the heavy soldier who were "unstopable", you were simply better then the opposing team, body type didnt factor much into it :/

Except that many people who can do this as a Heavy can't do it as a Medium or Light - so I'd say body type DOES factor in.

You're better than the opposing team... BUT ONLY WHEN YOU'RE A HEAVY - that's a pretty big point to miss when you're trying to say body type has no effect.

I think heavies certainly work, but they need a bit of tweaking even if it's not a change to them but to the environment around them.

[quote name='Mathonn' timestamp='1306351214' post='17753155']
My friend can't use a medium/light as effectively as he uses his heavy. He uses his heavy quite effectively and can't do a thing with his light or medium. I can't use my light the way I use my heavy, but I'll crush the enemy either way. Your failings in the game are not signs of a failing of the game.




It is a fact that the heavy does not have the same maneuverability as others in a game where, in your opinion, maneuverability is king. A guy who plays shooters in the run and gun style isn't going to want a heavy, a guy who plays in a more tactical mindset might.


Well I didn't just say that maneuverability is king. Right outta the devs mouths in one of the Get Smart videos "you need to keep moving if you want to live" or however they said it. This game is about SMART, speed, and parkouring ALL of which the Heavies lack. I think that they aren't compensated enough for it. People can say heavies are fine all they want and I will continue to own heavies as a medium or light with my SMG until they think otherwise.

The only thing the big guys need is more powerful weapons, they should not be more bullet sproof than others just because they are simply bigger guys (thats rediculous). Maybe if you're using a 22.caliber handgun at a distance all the while hitting him in his Gluteus Maximus, but, we are using high power burners that are highly capable of tearing thru flesh...the heavies are not iron men the last time I checked. If anything give them heavy armor to wear, at least that will make some arugements here seem reasonable. As I mentioned before that gattling gun is boss when its in the hands of a player who knows how and when to use it.

I did a search on this thread for "extra supplies", and nothing came up, so I'm not going to go through all 5 pages of this topic and take a risk in the assumption that this has not been said yet:

The ONLY way that I could ever be convinced to use the Heavy on an ongoing basis is if it were given at least an extra two pips of supplies (on top of any extra already there via abilities bought or command posts captured). Yes, the guns are an issue, but if the Heavy had significant amounts of extra supplies, it could make a very big difference (especially if it were a medic).

Without this, though, the Heavy is only so much extra target to shoot at. Useless.

the heavy should be able to climb to get to SOME routes that the medium and light classes could (maybe not the ones only light classes can travel thru.

also,

Light has 120 health
Medium has 140 health
Heavy has 180 health

they heavy should probably have more like 200 health :S

I agree with the heavies arsenal. When I see a guy with a big gun, he looks like easy pickens as I move around. However, that's only if he is not currently firing. Their weapons do extreme damage to lights at medium range. I play exclusively, (all of my characters) as a light. However, I rarely encounter them firing, simply pin my smg to their head and they drop like flies. (As does everyone else.)

Possible Fix: Make the heavy exclusive weapons slightly more accurate, with less spin up time. (These are by small margins, or it could lead to in-balances due to the weapons damage)

It would seem heavies have the greatest impact when they are with a group of people. Solo, a heavy is easy to take down, but with several "easier" targets around, he has plenty of time to get that huge gun kicking, while soaking some of the damage as people spray about for the Mediums and Lights. Advice, stick with groups of people, explore maps for other possible paths, possibly opened by other classes, if no one does it, swap and do it yourself... you'll end the map with more xp that way anyways.

And in any case, if you can't beat um, join um. A light soldier with a smg and armor upgrades fairs quite well. Enjoy your gaming*

Ok,
I read the first few pages and there was some good, relevant pro/con argument.

I have a dedicated Heavy Engineer/Soldier (not lvl 20 but I'm working on it) and I can see where both sides are coming from.
Playing against bots the Heavy body type does tank, the bots tend to group and fire sporadically, some aren't paying attention etc,etc so a whopping big gun can mow into them with minimal buffs required.

Playing in a pub game is a lot trickier, you tend to stand out, you're slow and you can get hit with some pretty heavy modded/buffed weapons and, if your not packing some friends or commubnicating well yeah, you'll really only act as a bullet soak (but that can, occasionally be a benefit).

However, as I've found ( only occasionally, but that's mostly my own fault re: communicating) when you bring your mates along it can change pretty quickly. Having a heavy body with kev, health buff, met buff and a gun buff (that's alot of buffin' ) can turn you into the tank you always wanted to be. S
ome of my friends don't rate the Gottlung for it's innacuracy but I love it for it's ability to deal damage over a constant spread when you find clumped enemies. Ok, it'd be far more fearsome if the damage zone were concentrated a little (more damage over a smaller spread) but I think the slow spin-up more than balances that.
More than any other weapon I feel the spinning barrels of a gatling-gun ought to bring the fear to whatever it's pointed at.

Most of all I agree that the Heavy set-up simply needs a pinch more damage output among the heavy weapon types.

Give Heavies one extra pip and 15% less spread on their full-auto guns.

Would certainly make me happier, and I'd definitely choose Heavy over Light more frequently.

Its all about play style. I cannot for the life of me play as a light, its just to damn frustrating dying so often, that and I svck with a pistol. But a heavy, now we are talkin, sure it takes me a tad longer to get to the battle, but once I rumble onto the scene, best believe Im taking control of the situation, or taking at least 3 of the enemy with me.

I don't agree that they should get less spread as heavy, theres a limit to how accurate we can make guns before they become a problem.

1 more pip of health is enough.

I just don`t want to read through 5 pages but one thing that should help the heavies would be surpression fire. Just a thought

As health pips have diminishing returns you would get a whole 5 health for that last pip. Seriously, more health is not the answer, it will only prolong the problem.

Yo, Glyph, any word on the AGL?

I've been testing the difference between Lobster and EZ-Nade, and the results are disappointing for the AGL.

First the damage:
Lobster = 105 damage, 5m blast radius,
EZ-Nade = 90 damage, 2m blast radius.
( http://i54.tinypic.com/x4jh53.jpg , adapted from a reputable source)

Of course, neither does full damage except at the direct point of blast. However, with the Lobster the shell AND the blast can knock people down, but the EZ-Nade CANNOT. These are my findings.

When I had unlocked heavy I thought that I'd try it out, but since I play medic, it wasn't all that helpful since I was getting left behind my and losing the ability to kite and get revives to my teammates just so I could withstand a few extra shots I guess it could be more helpful as a front line shooter than a support player like me :thumbsup:

Are you sure? I know Ive knocked people down with it, is it just direct hits then?

Yeah, sorry, was testing some other stuff out today and forgot to post the update. The AGL cannot knock players over but due to the smaller blast radius they have a higher chance to cause full damage than the Lobster's rounds. Odd that the mechanics are so different for the only two grenade launchers in the game. I spoke with my friends and we had a Soldier or two spamming nades with an underslung attachment which is what was causing all of the knockdowns.

EDIT: I didn't test direct hits so I will have to double check that.

I see where you're going but every body type has it's disadvantages, Medium can't run as fast as light, Light dosen't have much health and Heavy isen't as fast as medium. i know it says keep moving as one of the rules but stationary tactics can be the best hope of winning. heavy's aren't useless they're just slow is all but makes up for it with raw power. Medium isen't as fast but makes up for it with the average amount of health. Light can't take alot of damage but makes up for it with speed and agility. Brink is balanced no class or Body type is "better" then others, you choose your preference your way that's all it is.

Out the Blue Suggestion On top of the Suppression Idea: Quarter second or less stun from shots from LMG.


The reason: Stopping them in their tracks

We actually understand this but break it down by body type and you will see what we mean.

Lights move the fastest can grapple and wall-hop but have the least health at 120. They have access to long rifles, SMGs and various pistols.
Mediums have average speed, can grapple and have 140 health. They have access to all of the Light weapons in addition to ARs, a shotgun and a GL.
Heavies move the slowest and have 180 health. They have access to all of the Light and Medium weapons in addition to LMGs, a Chaingun, AGL and heavy shotgun.

Now on paper the Heavy's arsenal and health are superior to the other body types and the only negatives are a loss of speed and the inability to grapple or wall-hop. Not bad, right? In actuality though, the Heavy's arsenal is extremely situational and the added health is rather insignificant. Worse yet is that the Medium and Light weapons are often better than the Heavy ones and Brink is all about movement, something that the Heavy is lacking.

As I have said before the Heavy is fantastic against bots since they tend to bunch up and clog choke points so the Heavy weapons can mow down entire groups. Against players they tend to spread out more, flank from secondary routes, or counter snipe from long range. All of these things work against the Heavy's arsenal or mobility in most cases. A Heavy needs to force others to play to its strengths but it is difficult to force others to engage at medium range without falling into that deadly SMG territory. As myself and others have stated, simply reducing the spread of the Heavy's LMGs would offset much of this range issue. The Heavy certainly is not useless, it is just less useful.

EDIT: Regarding the suppression idea, on SD's forums a poster suggested using a flinch mechanic that knocked around the target's aim if they were hit by a Heavy weapon.

Would buffing the miniguns help? I'm wondering now.
I fought Heavies with giant miniguns and it was easier than killing medium enemies with shotguns.
Something's wrong.

It might help. One of the largest (in my opinion) problems of the heavy is that lighter enemies aren't afraid to get close and run circles around you. This wouldn't be a problem, and would actually be rather balanced, if the heavies were reliable at long or even medium range. If your enemy doesn't run straight at you it's pretty hard to hit them, especially when you're using a machine gun. Once they're in close, the large spread of heavy weapons coupled with their fast movement speed means you'll probably lose in close-quarters.

I'm not saying that a heavy should always win in close-quarters, but enemies shouldn't be able to run directly at you.

I have a suggestion.

Now, I'm not necessarily in favour of the whole argument, because even though I only played a short time as a Heavy online (so far), I feel they're actually well-balanced and effective when used well. But while everyone seems so dead-set on demanding more for Heavies, I may as well come up with my own idea for a buff that wouldn't overbalance things to much.

No accuracy buff. No damage buff (seriously, since when does "But I'm bigger than you" lead to "so it will hurt more when I shoot you with the same gun as the skinny guy" ??). No decreased spread. That would mess with weapon balance. Never a good idea. Also, no boost to base health.

My idea? Heavies get +5 health on each pip - If a buff would normally give them +20 health, they get +25.

WHat do you think? I don't think it's a big enough change to severely distort the current balance of the game, and it won't be any benefit to an unbuffed Heavy, but when fully buffed, the Heavy will gain +25 health on top of their base health advantage.