...because stupid people find 8 simple attributes to be a confusing "spreadsheet" of information.

...because TES is now aimed at people who don't even like RPGs, or whose prior experience with "RPGs" is limited to action games like Mass Effect or Fable.


Chances are, if you support Bethesda's decision to remove attributes, you fit into one of the above.

Riiiiiight.

Silly generalizations for the win! Go home all you stupid people that have played every TES game since arena and somehow like the new system. Do you know how to use doorhandles? Ok, sorry, I wasn't sure, it was just that since you were to stupid for old style TES attributes, it just seems sensible a door handle would also be too complex for you.

It isn't about how useful it was, but about how interesting it was. Why would you remove an interesting system that works and has always been there?
I'd rather have Skyrim's perk system + the attributes. It wouldn't have been tougher for them too make, since it has always been there

That's my biggest gripe. Perks are okay, but not only are they being thrown at us in such great numbers that they're no longer special , my char can level up because of one set of skills and then become totally awesome by investing all the perks in completely unrelated areas. I always liked the rules Bethesda used in their games (your character advances by practicing a skill and getting better at it), but now my char can become better by casting tons of spells and then, as a reward, be able to backstab more effectively.

No system is perfect and people prefer this way and that way. Perks, I guess, are the new black.

WOW, I am amazed at all the TES fans who never liked the level system until this game. How the hell were you all fans of TES fans without liking one of the most important aspects of the games?

Stats were removed because action/adventure games are about fights and cutscenes, not fiddling with numbers.

Stats were removed because action/adventure games are about fights and cutscenes, not fiddling with numbers.

You still have to grind skills you can't use even if you wanted to because of perk points. That's how backwards Skyrim has gotten.

How come there wasn't a person smart enough to say keep Skyrim as is but instead of having perk points just let the player unlock each perk if they chose to level up a skill. They level enough skills in say warrior they get bonus hp, in theif they get stamina, mage they get magic points.

Can you at least agree that both Oblivion's and Skyrim's leveling system both svck?

I've always found the post-Daggerfall implementation of attributes to be entirely boring.

Having to choose between: strength, agility, endurance, speed, willpower, intelligence, luck, etc. wich are influenced by the skills you used to level up is wayy more intereseting than putting 1 point in magicka, health and stamina... seriously...

...because stupid people find 8 simple attributes to be a confusing "spreadsheet" of information.

...because TES is now aimed at people who don't even like RPGs, or whose prior experience with "RPGs" is limited to action games like Mass Effect or Fable.


Chances are, if you support Bethesda's decision to remove attributes, you fit into one of the above.

See it is these people who complain how an easy to understand system of attributes was to hard. They are the very reason the newer games are word of the day, "streamlined". Just a polite way of saying dumbed down...... Yeah I like the perks and all, but really folks it seems a bit childish and simple minded to pick health, magicka, stamina. A 5 year old could do that much FFS..... :facepalm:

It's undeniable that the loss of attributes limits the breadth and depth of possible character options.

Stats were removed because action/adventure games are about fights and cutscenes, not fiddling with numbers.

Agreed, to an extent. While what you describe is something I have most definitely followed in a style of role playing, I won't say that Skyrim's change from previous TES games, no matter what I want, isn't working for those who felt those previous games were too hard. I know quite a few gamers who couldn't fathom even Oblivion's system, let alone Morrowind's or even try to learn Daggerfall's. But I'd rather have the older system myself, I like detailing the attributes of my character build. But, I do like Skyrim's a lot and there is a huge potential there to make it very dynamic; I can only hope that for the next TES games.

While I agree with your style of role playing from reading many of your posts here, I do think you are making broad generalizations about those who like Skyrim's system better; just saying, that's all

In your opinion. To many other people, stats add a LOT to the gameplay experience. Hence why so many people have rightly commented on how lacking character development is in Skyrim. :confused:

I think what it comes down to is there are two types of TES fans. Those who are perfectly happy just running around killing things, exploring some dungeons, collecting loot and doing quests. And those who want rich and meaningful character development and progression behind all that. To the former, stats are just an obstacle to overcome. They're not fussed about spending hours defining who their character is - all they want to do is play around with their character's appearance then make them all-powerful as quickly as possible so they can go and play TES like a sandbox action-adventure game. To the latter group, attributes are a must. They enjoy spending time building their character (not just deciding their physical appearance), and value progression, meaningful choice, consequences for actions, etc. as important aspects of the game.

See it is these people who complain how an easy to understand system of attributes was to hard. They are the very reason the newer games are word of the day, "streamlined". Just a polite way of saying dumbed down...... Yeah I like the perks and all, but really folks it seems a bit childish and simple minded to pick health, magicka, stamina. A 5 year old could do that much FFS..... :facepalm:

The thing is though, Morrowind and Oblivion weren't overly confusing or complicated games. As far as RPGs go, Oblivion in particular was very accessible. If a handful of people found the stats system in that game confusing, simplifying things even further really isn't the answer in my opinion. I think you just have to draw the line and say that those people just doesn't have the capacity to appreciate RPGs. You can't please everyone.

They are just appealing to the lowest common denominator. You really think the average 90 IQ console gamer can wrap his brain around more than 3 basic stats and (you do more damage) perks?