Same. As a matter of fact, I thought that 99% of the attributes did absolutely nothing. Sure Strength let you carry more... It was supposed to let you hit harder. But messing around with the console and putting it to 100...it really did nothing. I was just better off upgrading from an iron dager to a steel dagger. The difference was much more noticable than from going from 40str to 100str.

The same thing for every other stat. The only stat that mattered was speed, and I'm glad they took it out. The idea of running faster than a horse...and at that point your speed isn't even maxed out (take note your athletics isn't even taken into account yet). yet. I just found the attribute system stale/boring. I like the perk system better. Perhaps they will refine the attribute system and bring it back in the next game.

:facepalm:
Keep these people away from games.

^

It's more interesting than the usual RPG character system fare.

I also like that the focus now is on ROLEPLAYING as opposed to ROLLPLAYING.

WOW, I am amazed at all the TES fans who never liked the level system until this game. How the hell were you all fans of TES fans without liking one of the most important aspects of the games?

Calling attributes one of the most important aspects of the game is a gross over-exaggeration.

You still have to grind skills you can't use even if you wanted to because of perk points. That's how backwards Skyrim has gotten.

How come there wasn't a person smart enough to say keep Skyrim as is but instead of having perk points just let the player unlock each perk if they chose to level up a skill. They level enough skills in say warrior they get bonus hp, in theif they get stamina, mage they get magic points.

Magicka, Strength and Endurance are so restricting. So are skills. We need to get rid of these things because it just prevents the player from doing things they want to do.

Skyrim's system with perks is greater than anything they have done previously.

As opposed to leveling skills you don't want to get a higher attribute bonus in the desired category on level-up?





Right, you satirized the anti-attribute argument so perfectly. :rolleyes:

Actually...the RPG factor of the game was my favorite factor of the game. The attribute were stale/boring...and honestly...meaningless. All of my characters, no matter how hard I tried to make them unique, ended up with 100 in all attibutes (except for luck and speed, I kept though maxed at 60 on purpose). The outcome? Every character ended up the same. But the Rping was always different. To me, that's what made the TES games. Not the attributes.

EDIT: I would also like to add that the perks, to me, add to the RPing experience. Not only that, but I can create different characters without having to worry about creating the same ones over and over.

I never "got" the attributes, really. It seemed like a lot of blather for something that could also work more simply. But I didn't think about it much. I prefer the simplicity, I think. But while the perks are useful, they seem a little "gamey" to me. Like tricks. Still, I'd complain less if I'd understood them better and not wasted several early on.

Only if you really want to go to the max level, and that's not even necessary, just an option.

You can also create a new character, play it a different way with a different kind of story of your choosing, as many different ways as you'd like.

You basically now shape your character by the way you play your character, and that's what's great about Skyrim's system compared to the number crunching of before. I'm not counting how many times I leveled up a given skill, just to make sure I get the max bonus for that level. I'm just growing in skill according to how I play, as I continue doing whatever I please.

Can you at least agree that both Oblivion's and Skyrim's leveling system both svck?

Are you talking about maxed out characters? I've never had to grind any skill in Skyrim.. If you are talking about characters with 100's in all your necessary skills then 1) congrats for getting there 2) if your still grinding, expect End Game consequences for trying to be OP in an RP

Newp. I've not yet had any personal issues with it, 160 hours in.

I do, however, reserve the right to change my mind on a moment's notice.

I want my good old attributes back too, I think they could be based off skills similar to character level in a way. Have each attribute having 3 associated skills and dropping personality completely off the radar.

Based off of the current skills the way I'd have it is as follows (and doing away with the current +10 health/magicka/stamina option at the start of every level)

Strength - One-handed, Two-handed, Archery
Increases physical attack damage and decreases stamina usage from power attacks (0.2% increase per level - 0.2% stamina cost from power attacks)

Endurance - Heavy Armor, Blocking, Smithing
Increases health and armor rating (+4 Health + 1 armor per level)

Intelligence - Destruction, Restoration, Enchanting
Increases magicka and spell effectiveness (+4 magicka + 0.2% increased spell effectiveness per level)

Willpower - , Alteration, Conjuration, Illusion
Increases spell duration and magicka defense (+1% spell duration + 0.1% resist magic per level)

Speed - Lock picking, Sneak , Light Armor
increases character speed and decreases stamina usage from sprinting (+0.2 speed modifier - 0.2% stamina cost from sprinting per level)

Agility - Alchemy, Pick Pocket, Speech
increases stamina and carry weight (+4 stamina +2 carry weight per level)

Personality and Luck aren't really needed, tho luck could be applied as *all*. With this to get 100 in any attribute you'd need to get 100 in all 3 associated attributes but you aren't shooting yourself in the foot if you level some faster then others (which was the problem in oblivion).



The only Difficulty in it was the design flaws in Oblivion's leveling system... .

edit: fixed a few things.

As I stated before, the attribute system was just stale/boring as is. They'll most likely add them in the next game; or some type of attribute system. Like i've been saying, the TES series needed a breath of fresh air and Skyrim just happened to be the game to do it (at some point so game had to). Skyrim will forever be dubbed as a red-headed step child of sorts.

I'm not against attributes at all. I'm generally more of a math guy than a roleplayer myself. The problem was Bethesda's math guy was a Novice. I agree with the decision to fire that guy rather keep him around if those are the only 2 choices. Could Skyrim be better with Attributes? Yes, it could be.... but remember.... it could be worse.

As I've also stated before, that's because Oblivion broke it. I don't think the system I've suggested is really all that stale or boring, it's quite simple to understand and it means you don't get this stupid Health/Magicka/Stamina+carry weight option each level which is a bit annoying. Just the perk what is what people are really after...

Edit: @LobsterBoy

True, Skyrim could be worse, then again isn't it always universally true that anything could be better, or worse! It only toke me 10~15 minutes to come up with the above system, even with my slightly better then average maths skills... so if somebody really couldn't make it work... that'd be dreadful.

Perks say hi.

Not many of those attributes were really... necessary. Athletics? Did anyone make a character that didn't run?

Not in my opinion. Of course, opinions will vary. I can see that most people favor the Bioware/MMO "choose an ability that has a different animation and icon to put in your hotbar" type of thing over managing attributes. Whatever, to each his own. The next TES game may have a hotbar, I'll laugh hard then.

You can have attributes AND perks, DUH

I'm not saying that it should be exactly like in Oblivion, it can be adapted... I find magicka, health and stamina choices... ugly...

After 100+ hours in Skyrim, I can honestly say that Bethesda cannot design a level system (at least not since 96)

Skyrim's system is flat unrewarding to me:

I get levels much too quickly, so I don't feel rewarded.
the HMS system was designed to make it so that you never take something to improve something else, yet that's the only reason I take Stamina.
The HMS system has reached a point where it doesn't matter what I take, my battles aren't going to go from lose to win on the basis of what I chose last level-up. or even last five.
I have 11 perks unused, because the perks are unimaginitive, and what I have access to, I either never needed, or it would make my character much too powerful to be fun.

So... unrewarding, give me a new and fresh attribute system instead of this mess, please.

Maybe not what you put down, but what Bethesda had going for it since Morrowind... The attributes were just blah. They tried something new, some people like it, some don't. Like they did when they went from Daggerfall to Morrowind, they'll probably change things some more. Most likely people will get their attributes back. But this time, they will have a much more meaningful impact.

I think you're wrong. I saw about 50 different ideas to strengthen attributes in the suggestions threads. We got this system. We discussed perks, and ways people would and would not like them. We got the latter. The forums don't seem to have much of a voice compared to surveys of random people.