Why is the Institute considered evil?

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:23 am

I think he's quoting a scientific philosophical conundrum which is that life is a PROCESS not a actual substance.

Like fire.

Fire is a reaction and when it stops, it's still made of the same materials.

Doctor Manhatten mentions this on national TV in Watchmen in what I THINK was supposed to be a joke but everyone assumed he was being serious about.

"Well, a dead body is made up of as many atoms as a living one so nuclear war doesn't really matter if you think about it."

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Marta Wolko
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:55 am

That's impossible. Because the super-mutants require a source of FEV. If the only FEV source is at the Institute, a sealed enviroment, the super-mutants have to come from somewhere else. They can't "dip" people in The Institute, and from what the logs show, the Institute only experimented on a relatively small number of people. Killing some, and keeping others in stasis. Which can in no-way explain the vast numbers of mutants we see in the Commonwealth.

The super-mutants are almost assuredly the FEV-87 strain. Which means they're probably drifters from the Capital Wastes.

And The Institute actually:

Spoiler

Found the [censored] cure for super-mutants. Which is pretty big deal. Now everyone ever affected by the FEV has the chance to be returned to normality.

Was that worth the cost of experimentation? I say it was.

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Romy Welsch
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:11 am

woops. completely missed that :P

nevertheless, i think it's an interesting discussion, but i still stand by my belief that if you slash someone in half and get blood all over you and you can grab their insides, they're humans alright. if electrical wires and metal components fall out, they're not.

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roxanna matoorah
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:37 pm

Spoiler
We have no idea if that would work on other Super Mutants or whether the artificial transformation of Virgil is a unique case.

And I see no problem with the Institute creating Super Mutants and releasing them.

They want to sew chaos in the Wasteland and there's no better way than 9ft tall killing machines.

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N Only WhiTe girl
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:42 am

They are both fuel, and what organic life is composed of. What you're describing is metabolism, which synths arguably have as well.

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Samantha Pattison
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:44 am

Which raises an interesting question about Kellog and that poor Brotherhood of Steel woman who had her upper-torso, essentially, glued to a Power Suit.

For me, though, I decided Nick Valentine may not be human but he acts a lot more human than the vast majority of humans the Sole Survivor meets.

And he'll take that over a world where Shaun would toss him in a dumpster (which he is implied to have done).

Edit:

One cool fact is they actually do give a bit of non-visual storytelling with the Sunshine CO-OP. The Sunshine Co-Op is the Railroad but because they reprogrammed a Mister Handy, it makes them look RIDICULOUS.

That's a good argument for the Institute's view.

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Harinder Ghag
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:40 am

Spoiler

He said it works on a single stain. There's two confirmed strains we know of. Mariposa, and Vault 87. No indications in Fallout 4 are given that the mutants in the Commonwealth are of a third strain. And given the obvious similarities to the Vault 87 mutants, they are definitely kin. Meaning the cure is for the FEV-87 Strain, and also means that nearly everyone on the East Coast can be cured.

Nothing indicates they did. They kept detailed logs on each experiment, and each one is either been terminated, or placed into stasis. None have been listed as released or escaped.

Besides, releasing the mutants is completely counter-intuitive, considering what a pain they cause to Institute operations. And furthermore, suddenly turns the Institute from morally dark-grey to stupid evil. Completely stupid evil.

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Lucky Boy
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:58 pm

The Institute is a very "can't make an omlette" organization.

Spoiler
I'm not saying you're wrong but given the numbers in the Commonwealth and a local source of Super Mutants, it seems likely they're responsible.

I hope we'll get an answer.

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keri seymour
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:51 pm

Spoiler

I'd argue that the numbers are the biggest argument against the Institute being responsible. The FEV program at the Institute didn't appear that much of a priority, and it would have required a huge amount of FEV to infect all those people.

If nothing else than for the sake of the narrative, it would be terrible to have the Institute release them. The Institute as it is rides the line of morality. Disrupting a potential NCR state because they feared the threat it might pose to them, is Tywin Lannister evil. Cold, calculating, but smart.

Releasing a horde of super-mutants to maul, murder, and eat people alive just for the lulz is comic-book villain evil.

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Adam Porter
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:52 pm

Spoiler
True, if the Super Mutants were a experiment of the Institute, I'd expect they'd have accidentally released it because the Institute is terrible at its job.

I also think the Institute is responsible for hiring Talon Company but they could have been hired by the Enclave or Paradise Falls too.

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Lew.p
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:53 pm

Unless they "accidentally" relayed the super-mutants out of their completely sealed in facility, I don't see how they could.

The synths escape only because of the every couple or so that decides it wants to leave whilst on a scav mission. Or the occasional rouge Virgil. Otherwise the Institute runs a fairly tight ship.

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Tammie Flint
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:01 am

Revolt?

Or the Institute's facilities on the surface before they moved underground completely.

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Stephanie Kemp
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:12 pm

they may not the good guy but that doesn't really brand them the bad guy. now i ask you a question. if by chance Institute one day can cure all radiation off the planet, and their experiment can cure all supermutant or other creature so human can no longer live under the terror of those monsters, and human can once again live in on the planet that grass, tree can grow properly, start drinking water from river freely but in exchange they require to performance lot of experiment on human, and some other things on the world as sacrifies.

are they really evil? their ultimate motive is to save earth and human race so they are doing lot of good, but in exchange there will be some necessary evil and collateral damage as the result. what Insitute is fall under the gray area. they are both good and bad people

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jennie xhx
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:34 am

If there was a massive revolt of mutants, we would have known about it. Virgil destroyed the lab on his way out but that was the only instance of a "revolt".

Doubtful, there's nothing that indicates they ever had FEV experimentation anywhere but the Bioscience Lab. And again, it doesn't explain the absolutely massive numbers.

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Dalley hussain
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:55 am

The thing is, there's a good rebuttal for that.

They've had 200 years to do this.

And they have done, truly, jack and [censored].

Lex Luthor basically said, "I could save this entire world if you weren't stopping me."

Superman's rebuttal?

"Who's stopping you? You could save the world if you want but you don't. You just try and kill me."

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Annick Charron
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:42 pm

Maybe.

Then again, the massive numbers of Super Mutants aren't explained by one Vault in the Capital Wasteland either.

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Greg Swan
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:41 pm

Until we find evidence of an exterior Institute FEV facility the point is moot anyway.

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Baylea Isaacs
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:46 am

Yeah, we don't know where they came from and can only speculate.

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Amber Ably
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:10 pm

According to a lot of internal conversation they only recently reach phrase 3 which is allow them to expand their operation. In the early phrase they were to survive by sending synth to gather materials for expansion and to survive.
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Kayleigh Mcneil
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:24 am

In addition the game screen transition slides do mention that the Institute used to work closely with the people of the Commonwealth to try and give them some of the benefits of their advanced technology, but mistrust grew between the two of them and they cut off all contact: isolating themselves underground.

Its only now that they are attempting a reemergence.

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Gaelle Courant
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:33 pm

To quote Shepherd Book, "A government is an institution of people."

For me, the problem isn't the Institute but Shaun and the other Directors.

They would have done better if they'd just remained isolationist.

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BRAD MONTGOMERY
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:03 pm

No they can't because their next phrase is to fix earth that require operate on the surface
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Tracey Duncan
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:52 pm

And their current phase involved destroying the Commonwealth of Allied Settlements.

Basically, they've got some severe control issues.

Not to mention their more twisted and evil experiments.

If they don't see anything wrong with murdering a father, replacing him, and then ordering his family liquidated after observing them--they're not to be trusted.

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Damien Mulvenna
 
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Post » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:21 pm


You done [censored] up, the hostage was the synth. You would know if you had high charisma
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Elisha KIng
 
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Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:24 am

If you have played Fallout since 1st release, and read the story.

You will find out that Brotherhood of Steel is a group that self declare themselves as keeper of technology, only they themselves are allowed to use technology to their benefit, any other groups that get involves in science, they will assume the group to be evil and will misuse the technology and bring world destruction again. Of course, unless you join them, then you are permitted by them to play with advance tech.
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Invasion's
 
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