I dont think that NCR as a whole is corrupt; just a handful of individuals and groups within their umbrella. I think the devs just showed us more corruption in the Mojave so that they would be on more equal footing with the legion, morality-wise.

the only policy I think is bad about the NCR as a whole is their sense of Manifest Destiny; Their belief that everything under the sun should/will belong under the NCR umbrella. IMO that is the most damning ideal that they have.

What? Wait a minute... What? How did we get from NCR to 'Down with Israel'?

You make Vaultboy Sad :sadvaultboy:



And even without lobbying, they still have corruption.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/KE14Dg01.html


Soooo.... DarkZerker. Dude. You do understand that the MOST corrupt country you've listed is not a democracy? Right?
Thereby negating the 'NCR is a Democracy and is therefore inherently corrupt even if the game doesn't say necessarily say so' argument?

Does anything in the game actually support the idea that NCR have a sense of Manifest Destiny - or is that just something that the community is reading into it?
As commented before - they are after the dam, and House is happy to let them have it as long as The Strip gets trade from the NCR. They don't, for example, take over primm unless they are asked to.

The most corrupt thing that I could find about the NCR is taxation without representation against the will of some of those who are newly annexed into their government. Their reach does also extend their grasp slightly, methinks.


I still don't see how it's worth trading that for slavery, brutal corporal punishment, sixism, and the anti-knowledge/technology stance that the Legion holds, though.

In a democracy. everyone has a say in what goes in govnernment. The problem is some people hold more say then others. When you have companys like Van Graffs, Crimson Caravan, and Brahamin Barons running around bribing politctions and such, hello corruption.

the fact that they either annex or try to annex every independent city they have come across is pretty good evidence IMO. Vault city, broken hills, I think even arroyo fell under NCR rule after a while.

The whole reason Kimball is in the Mojave is his want for expansion. Even lesser non-named NCR guys talk about how they "can't wait until Vegas is annexed" in some of their passerby comments. Kimball is definitely not just after the dam. Pretty much the entire NCR campaign is you setting up NCR rule of Vegas. The dam is a launch pad, a stepping stone to taking over the Mojave.

Well, ultimately, that stems from the somewhat misguided goal of bringing Democracy back to the entirety of the United States. A noble ideal, but they're using the wrong methodology to achieve it.

Because they are modeling themselves after the government of the United States?

Where's the line between taking over and joining of their own free will?
The outcomes in the wasteland don't suggest they force people.

* They leave Primm alone unless you specifically ask them to step in.
* Novac remains independent
* The Boomers develop a healthy trading relationship with the NCR
* When allied with the Kings NCR make "repeated entreaties that Freeside join the Republic", but it stays independent.

That doesn't seem like the NCR is particularly aggressive to me.

As someone who lives outside the states, the list of countries whose governments have made a country more desirable to live within is very small.

To chime, the Caravan Families have just as much power as the Brahmin barons in NCR, they have freedom because they have power, and they have power because they have control of supply and demand. The Caravan Families are not to far off from Mafia based on the way they act. Heck, look at what a certian person in New Vegas does to get their way as caravan powerhouse.

The fact their pushing outwards with out securing their tracks, they're corrupt because of their greed.
For corruption to take place all you need is a little greed to set in and the corruption spreads to each politician like the black plague

an entire sub-plot of vault city in Fallout 2 is Lynette's resistance to the persistence of NCR trying to annex them. The whole thing revolves around them putting real pressure on Vault City to join them. Even so far as the chosen one has the choice to weaken Vault City's independent standing, so that NCR has stronger footing politically to assimilate them. Every city in Fallout 1 has become part of NCR in Fallout 2, and by the time of New Vegas every city that was in Fallout 2 is now a part of NCR.

I never said they were being overly aggressive. the USA didn't aggressively take all land when they claimed the continental United States. A large portion was done through land purchases from Spain, France, and some Native Americans. I think the USA only really fought Mexico and certain Native Americans over land. Aggressive takeover =/= Manifest Destiny.

Manifest Destiny is the belief that a group of people have (in this case NCR) that they are destined to expand their country from one coastline to the other. IMO the NCR as a whole believe that they should be the one and only country on the continent. This is supported by their rapid expansion and their persistence to get foothold in any civilized area they find.

As to your examples, all those outcomes are only a few years into the future. We dont see what happens 50+ years into the future. Most likely they gain so much power and influence from Vegas that they just boot out anyone that doesnt want to conform, like they do with the Followers of the Apocalypse.

They're dealings in Fallout 2 were more subtle.
They were making deals with the Bishops, a Reno crime family, which would eventually not only bring Reno into the NCR (with a position of power for Mr Bishop), but also used him to force Vault City into joining (through faux raider attacks and internal politicking).


There is a case to be made for the Shi, though. Their are given to be culturally quite different as to be alien to the NCR, a touch xenophobic and isolationist with quite a bit of self-sufficiency.
There is no word of it, but if any of them remained independent it would be them.


I'd actually think that they believe their manifest destiny is to spread democratic civilization to the wasteland. It would be interesting to see if they would indeed annex a democratic civilization they would not have a beef with, somewhere along their path of expansion or whether they would acknowledge them.

Yeah.... Fallout 2 is devastating to my case. I might have ignored it and just hoped that no one would notice.

China is a Totalitarian Fascist State pretending to be communist. It's corrupt from top to bottom...it's so endemic it makes Chicago and New Orleans look like they're run by choir boys. Most of the ruling elite own businesses and use the power of the State to take what they want from people with less or no political pull. There are riots in the countryside all the time from peasants run off their own land so gov't officials can sell it to developers. All of this is tolerated unless you try to steal more than you're entitled to by your station or make the central gov't look bad. :lol

If you want some democracies that are truly corrupt...look at Italy, Greece, or Russia(technically a democracy).

I'm sorry but China's not totalitarian nor fascist. If I had to use terms I'd say they're an Oligarchical Authoritarian Economically Statist Nation. I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, just trying to help you out..

On topic the NCR isn't really that corrupt, I'm actually suprised it's not more so. Techinally the Mojave Outpost giving you (a merc) supplies is corrupt, the people stealing supplies is also corrupt, the whole Crimson situation is unethical but not corrupt since there weren't any laws concerning not doing that in a warzone or out of NCR turf. Also I wouldn't even call the Baron situation corrupt. Is it right, or even fair? No but not really corrupt per say.

And that's why they allow slave labor conditions for their workers and buy American bonds, and gloat at the fact that they can steal the entire manufacturing industry from the most powerful nation in the world while regularly sending us massive viruses to try to disable our national security grids. They have the United States by the balls and all we can do is shake our finger at them when they violate civil rights abuses more often than most middle-eastern despots. "Free trade" is a total joke.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19461_6-b.s.-myths-you-probably-believe-about-americas-enemies.html
Sometimes humor is the best way to disarm an argument. I'm really not going to disagree with you and there is a shade of truth (to the full truth) in your statement but that doesn't change the classifation of their government.

Oligarchical authoritarian statist

...

I'm not sure how NCR corruption relates to China.