So time after time, I see people saying that the NCR is corrupt and that makes them horrible, so what exactly do you see that makes them corrupt.

I have my own opinions, but I would like to see some other people's ideas. I can only remember one actual source of corruption too.

All the corruption that NCR has

1. Brahmin Baron's have too much power
2. Caravan Companies have too much freedom (can be somewhat corrected also maybe not corruption as they break the law)
3. Best soldiers guard Brahmin Baron's
4. Veteran Rangers Chasing Ghosts (fixed later in game)
5. Greed

Corruption without evidence (yet)

1. Bureaucracy (needs to have in game proof where someone implies or says this)
2. Campaign funds are usually funded by companies whose interests are being supported by the candidates.

Simple the bureaucracy of there government. The larger a government is the more corrupt it becomes.

I also forgot to mention that I would like to see sources from where you saw some of these.

They have a lot in common with the u.s. government... that is too say, its very corrupt, inefficent. they allow companies to operate far too freely.. such as Crimson caravan, and Van Graffs.. two worst merchant outfits ever.

But you are given the oppurtunity to see that the NCR can put them down peacefully after finding them guilty, so I only consider that half a problem.

Like any government there is naturally going to be corruption.

In this case I believe people are misinterpreting NCR's actions. They raise taxes which some people see as a sign of corruption for some reason, even though every civilized nation needs taxes.

Brahmin Barons seem to have great power over leaders of the NCR. They keep the best troops back in NCR protecting cattle on the behalf of the Barons, rather then send them to the Mojave.
NCR has their best Rangers off chasing Ghosts in the Baja as well.

I see those as more confirmation that NCR doesn't care much about the Legion threat. Their goal is to contain legion not, wipe them out and conquer their lands.

Every power tries to extend it's influence to coherse and control, to gain uninhibited access to markets and resources and the NCR just happens to be the most powerful force. The NCR government's overriding priority is to maintain, increase and expand its power and reach even if it's citizens have to suffer for it in the process.

I never understood it either. Sure some corruptian exists but no more than what one would honestly expect, I seem to recall somebody saying that it was "riddled with corruption" and I feel that that is an over-statement. There are some people in the NCR that exploit the system, as is the case with every Government, when you think about it isn't that instance of one of Caesar's Centurions having an illegal homosixual relationship with a slave like Legion version of corruption?

Well the only time I have seen any big corruption is with the caravans, but like I said you can stop that violently or peacefully (which shows some intelligence). And then the Brahmin Barons.

I agree with the last three posts. I have never seen such a huge deal of corruptuon like The Enclave pointed out. (by the way I remember you saying something about this, which was one reason why I made this). And a lot of it seems to be the NCR's lack of interest like Styles pointed out. And then Horhey's point where NCR loves expansion. That is one of the problems that I see with them, but I wouldn't necesarrily say corrupt.

I'll make a list on the first post about the "sheer" amount of corruption so many people seem to think they have.

What the NCR calls democracy has weakened it. Brahmin barons control a large portion of the government. Campaign funds are usually funded by companies whose interests are being supported by the candidates. Corporations are much stronger than individuals and only a large action by a large group can prove to be effective, which is rare and sometimes impossible. Brahmin barons who get the candidate elected with their money can control them with more money.

For every new president, new corruption and more importantly, greed, comes along with it. For Kimball, after discovering Vegas, his greed was the Mojave. The NCR was already stretched too thin because of a sort of Imperialistic attitude towards tribals and land not owned by them. For NCR, it's either my land already or going to be my land in the future.

When Legion arrived, they weren't stretched thin, or at least didn't act like it. They had a vast amount of resources like NCR but their doctrine of "technology caused Great War" keeps them from winning the battle in an instant. Either way, the Legion - NCR war really brings out the worst of both nations.

Good to see an avid Caesar's Legion supporter post. I'm pretty sure the greed is mentioned so I'll put that, I have the corporations down, but again it can partially be fixed.



First off this sounds a little confusing :confused: and where does someone say this in game?

The Legion is not anti-tech cause they were trying to secure a long term energy weapons deal with the Van Graffs. They also take over Helios One if you kill all the NCR troops there. They would use advanced tech if they had access to it.

It's a democracy and most democracies are like that except rare cases or when countries first start out. But I meant Brahmin barons and Crimson Caravan. Well firstly, that one Ranger in Cass' mission says that Crimson Caravan hurts the NCR really badly if it is gone, which means that the NCR is heavily reliant on the Crimson Caravan, a company. Brahmin Barons...well they do stop exporting meat to Vegas on a whim so their power stretches pretty far.

And if they have soldiers guarding their ranches, that means they probably have lobby organizations or at least some political contacts. Inductive reasoning I guess.



Question...where does it say that the Legion has deals with the Van Graffs? I'm seriously curious because I haven't found it.

Do the Van Graff's quest, but you have to get Cass killed to do it. Then in a warehouse the Legion are prepared to trade energy weapons with the Van Graff's which the Legion is taking seriously, any faction would. Then the NCR busts in and kills the Legion guys.

NCR isn't corrupt. Some people within the NCR are corrupt. Slight, but significant, difference.

NCR's biggest problem isn't corruption - it's that they have been spread too thin. That's incompetence rather than corruption.



They aren't too free, the companies are operating outside the law.

You can't use companies breaking the laws of the NCR as evidence for NCR corruption unless you can prove that the NCR know about the law breaking and are covering it up.
In fact you can prove that's NOT the case (and therefor prove that NCR aren't corrupt), since (as you point out) when you prove they are breaking the law, NCR shut them down.


I'm not sure that protecting your food supply is necessarily corrupt.
In war troops are often sent to guard private interests that are vital to the war effort.

Good points, I am waiting until tomorrow though, see what more NCR haters have to say.

Wait... Corporations? Are we still talking about NCR here? Are you getting this from somewhere?

Many (most?) of the NCr believe they are doing good - bringing protection and peace to the Mojave.
Their greed is less the Mojave and more the dam - but they want the dam for the 'good' of their people. As House was willing to give up the dam for the sake of trading with the NCR, I'm not sure I see the problem there.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't saying that, that is a sign of them being corrupt. I was saying some people see that as a sign of them being corrupt.

To me it as another sign NCR doesn't see the Legion as a serious threat.

Oh, totally. :foodndrink:


I definitely wouldn't try to argue that the NCR are not incompetence personified

I really think its just because of the lack of a better arguement, either that or it just comes from people who don't know enough about the game to really make a arguement so they just plug in something they heard somebody else say. Not that the NCR doesn't have their downsides because its painfully obvious that they do but as fas as corruption goes its really not any worse than what you would expect from a orginazation of their size.

That is what I am starting to figure, but I'm not going to be 100% sure on this until more people give their opinions. But that's basically why I made this, to try and prove a point.

Saying "People in the NCR are corrupt, not the NCR" is like saying "The organs of a lion are failing, but the lion isn't failing". People make the system. The U.S, without people running the thing, it'll be anarchy. If the majority is corrupt, than the system is that much corrupt. Of course, people like Hanlon or Tandi aren't corrupt, but most are, which make the system, corrupt.

It's the difference between New Zealand's government and Turkmenistan's government.



Most are?
Evidence. Do you have it?

Ah, yes:
The Brahmin barons are an important part of Senator Morales' political base, and he's up for reelection soon. The mutants at Jacobstown need to be driven off or provoked into an attack. The senator wants to be able to show he's taking a strong stance against the mutant presence, but there can't be any blood on our hands.
So, use the same tactics as you did against those squatters back in Oak Creek. Harass the hell out of the mutants, but don't kill them unless they attack first.

So you've proven that Senator Morales is corrupt, but that isn't a indictment of the entire NCR.

U.S. Many corporations have lots of voting influence. And if that doesn't convince you, let me introduce you to AIPAC. Look up that on yahoo or google and you'll see what they truly are. Look at something else along with Wikipedia. Lots of people who know about them hate them.

South Korea. Basically U.S but lobbying is more illegal.

China. So long as you don't hurt the communist party, you can basically do whatever. Well it isn't a democracy, but still.

I don't know enough about other democracies to say any more.