Why the "be who you want to be" mindset most likely

Post » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:02 pm

Yes, they do, they represent whatever corresponding stat they dictate. 2 layers that make sense are better than one and its not redundant and nobodies yet to show me how personality or luck will be represented through perks, or skills. And no, personality and speech craft can be and are mutually exclusive and yes, luck does matter. And those are the two least talked about attributes.


Those are actually really good points. I honestly don't know how / if they're going to handle that.

I hope that those characteristics are still present.
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Jason King
 
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Post » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:34 pm

SushiRush, it's amazing the insight that you have regarding what will and wont work in Skyrim, a game that isn't even close to be released yet. I gotta give you mad props. Either you played the E3 demo, or you ARE Todd Howard.
Tell me, Todd. Why are you implementing a system that you seem so vehemently against? You said it yourself, Todd "it wont work"! So why add it?
Todd, you are confusing me.
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Jessie Rae Brouillette
 
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Post » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:39 pm

trying something new is one thing but completely doing away with attributes. its been going down hill since after morrowind.
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N Only WhiTe girl
 
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Post » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:39 am

trying something new is one thing but completely doing away with attributes. its been going down hill since after morrowind.


"Hey we've got trouble... right here in River City... with a capital 'T' and that rhymes with 'P' and that stands for pool..."

On topic: Merging redundant systems isn't a sacrifice of depth. It's a windfall of elegant gameplay.
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xx_Jess_xx
 
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Post » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:27 am

Those are actually really good points. I honestly don't know how / if they're going to handle that.

I hope that those characteristics are still present.

I hope so too. And expanded on honestly. The luck character that bumbles and fumbles his way through X quest(s) is always entertaining to play and watch unfold.
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Javaun Thompson
 
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Post » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:44 pm

On topic: Merging redundant systems isn't a sacrifice of depth. It's a windfall of elegant gameplay.


Except they didn't have to remove entire systems to streamline and fix the gameplay.
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Trevor Bostwick
 
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Post » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:36 am

Except they didn't have to remove entire systems to streamline and fix the gameplay.


I hope this hasn't happened. It's kind of too early to tell either way. I hope that they did the 'good' developer thing and integrated redundant systems for a smoother ride toward whatever goal the player is trying to roleplay at. I hope they didn't do the 'bad' developer thing of 'chop out things that confuse new people because trying when you pursue your hobby isn't cool anymore.'

I'm hoping that most of the meat of the character building stuff is still there. I guess we're all in 'wait and see' mode at this point.
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Cedric Pearson
 
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Post » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:07 pm

No, its pretty much confirmed. Attributes did not need to be removed. Classes did not need to be removed. Same with a lot of the skills they removed. I can understand combining athletics and acrobatics (though I think they removed them altogether, which is stupid), and speechcraft and mercantile, but its stupid to combine all weapon types into two skills. Hell, I was even fine with just having Blade and Blunt if they would've expanded how many blunt weapons there actually were that were useful. And don't get me started on mysticism.

Granted, they fixed many of the actual problems, but on the flipside of the coin they removed a lot of things that were never large problems. I always heard people complaining about level scaling and I even remember the occasional gripe about the past health system. But I never heard someone say that attributes were pointless or detrimental to gameplay (aside from endurance, but thats looped in with the health issue), only not used to their max potential.
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Emma-Jane Merrin
 
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Post » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:00 am

This is my take on it.

A class is picking a set number of skills/attributes that define your gameplay from the beginning.

Skyrims system is the exact same thing, except you don't pick it from the beginning, you pick it as you GO. You define your "class" as you play, you learn your class, and you create your OWN class based on what skills you use.

Want to play a Mage? Use magic, no armor, daggers, and staves. Voila. Guess what? You're a Mage. RP and imagination required, but that's how it should be.

Want to play a Warrior? Use swords/axes/maces, heavy armor, smithing, and have a beard. Voila. Guess what? You're a Warrior. RP and imagination required, but again, that's how it should be.
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Darlene DIllow
 
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Post » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:48 pm

First of all, I am not one of the people who thinks that Bethesda removed classes to appeal to a more mainstream audience. Bethesda has always been passionate about making their games good and they are always loyal to their fans.

Bethesda removed classes because they wanted to take an approach where you actually be who you want to be. If you use daggers a lot, you will get better at daggers. You play how you want, and your character gets better at what you do,
like he would in real life.



This is a good idea on paper, but simply won't work. We are playing an RPG game. There is no way us gamers are going to just play the game without paying attention to stats, and just do what we feel like while our characters levels up according to our "personality".
Without any limitations and things to define our character (classes,) we will all find ourselves switching from a sword to bow, because our marksman skill isn't high enough, etc.

Putting everyone on a blank slate is not a good idea on an RPG game, even though in theory it would be a great immersion feature.


never really paid attention to stats in oblivion, I just use whatever weapon and whatever armour, I don't pay attention to whether the skill is in increasing (at least not in the sense that i change weapons purposefully to get the skill up)
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Christine Pane
 
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Post » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:06 pm

This is my take on it.

A class is picking a set number of skills/attributes that define your gameplay from the beginning.

Only if you don't have any imagination. If you do have sufficient imagination, then a class is nothing more than a set of inclinations and talents that might or might not correspond with the skills you'll end up using.

The only people who are bound by class are those who can't think beyond whatever it is that the game gives them.

Skyrims system is the exact same thing, except you don't pick it from the beginning, you pick it as you GO.

If you pick it as you go, it's not the same thing. You don't pick talents and inclinations as you go - you already possess them. You pick skills as you go, which is the same thing you did in past games. So the skills - the things you pick as you go - are there now as they were then. The rest of it - the talents and inclinations - are simply gone.

You define your "class" as you play, you learn your class, and you create your OWN class based on what skills you use.

Within the context of skills, again, that's what you always did. But now your "class" won't have the added flavor of talents and inclinations. It will ONLY consist of skills.

Want to play a Mage? Use magic, no armor, daggers, and staves. Voila. Guess what? You're a Mage. RP and imagination required, but that's how it should be.

Again, that's how it's always been. But in the past, you could play a mage who wasn't particularly talented at it and had to rely exclusively on skills, or one who had a great deal of innate talent and could coast on skills, or anything in between. Now, ALL you can do is practice the skills. All the rest of it is gone.

Want to play a Warrior? Use swords/axes/maces, heavy armor, smithing, and have a beard. Voila. Guess what? You're a Warrior. RP and imagination required, but again, that's how it should be.

And again, that's how it's always been, though again, talents and inclinations are gone and all that's left are skills.

Which, I guess, is fine for the people who can't roleplay a character who's anything more than the sum of his skills. Some of us, however, can and would rather play characters who are a bit more than just an accumulation of skills.
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Rudi Carter
 
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Post » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:26 pm

^^ That.
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Laura Hicks
 
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Post » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:18 pm

I suppose a possible solution would be to grant the player a certain number of free skill ups to help define their past/character choice.
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Lillian Cawfield
 
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Post » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:22 pm

Some of us, however, can and would rather play characters who are a bit more than just an accumulation of skills.

Um, and the "class" title is the only thing that just breaks the glass for you eh?
This is the EXACT same system as oblivions and morrowinds, except you just don't have the title of "mage" "warrior" etc. There is no difference.
You RP your way to a class, you do not have to have a title to make you a mage. If you want to be a mage, use mage skills and use magic. Enough said.
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James Smart
 
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Post » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:42 pm

I definitely didnt like Todds "You can be a Mage, then just switch up and be an archer etc." comment during the E3 demo. Id say the people that just pick up the game and newbs etc. will play like TC says, not really RPing, just doing whatever is practical like it was an action game. Ill be sticking to my characters class though.

This. I cringed when I heard that, it seems to imply that the best way to play and enjoy the game is to only use Do-Everything characters who use every weapon they pick up based only upon base damage and the weapon's stats.
Gaaaahh. I didn't ever catch that, and don't remeber it. That's very sad. :sadvaultboy:
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Nikki Morse
 
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Post » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:15 am

you do not have to have a title to make you a mage.


Not so much a matter of need as it is a matter of want. Which seems to be whats confusing you. No one here is saying they need to have the game tell them they're a mage otherwise they can't use magic.
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Donald Richards
 
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Post » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:44 am

Solution: OblivionXP. Oops, I mean SkyrimXP. :thumbsup:
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Kate Schofield
 
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Post » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:16 am

Not so much a matter of need as it is a matter of want. Which seems to be whats confusing you. No one here is saying they need to have the game tell them they're a mage otherwise they can't use magic.


If you could enter in a title just to see it, would that be enough?
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lisa nuttall
 
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Post » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:55 am

Alright.

#1: There are more than 3 types of stones to define your class. Not just the Warrior Sign, the Mage Sign, and the Thief Sign. Todd speaks of these as the three "main" stones, but there are various other stones that help you define your character based on how you RP it.

#2: Having a title that denotes your class means absolutely nothing. Just because your characters sheet in Oblivion said "Mage", that didn't MAKE you the mage. What MADE you a Mage? THE SKILLS YOU USED. Skills>Everything. You want to be a Mage, USE THE MAGE SKILLS. SKILS is what defines your character.
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Ice Fire
 
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Post » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:49 pm

^^ Precisely Aradal. In my classes topic thats exactly what I argue for. And whats more, being able to change it whenever you want to suit whatever changing interests you have.

SKILS is what defines your character.


Thats you're opinion, and regardless, being able to give ourselves a class title can DEFINE YOUR CHARACTER EVEN MORE. (caps to spite)
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Steven Hardman
 
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Post » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:58 pm

^^ Precisely Aradal. In my classes topic thats exactly what I argue for. And whats more, being able to change it whenever you want to suit whatever changing interests you have.


I don't see a problem with that tbh, it's just text at the end of the day. It makes people happy and it's not too hard to program in.
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SHAWNNA-KAY
 
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Post » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:12 pm

Um, and the "class" title is the only thing that just breaks the glass for you eh?
This is the EXACT same system as oblivions and morrowinds, except you just don't have the title of "mage" "warrior" etc. There is no difference.
You RP your way to a class, you do not have to have a title to make you a mage. If you want to be a mage, use mage skills and use magic. Enough said.
Actually, its not just a name, its a profession; calling it meaningless and unneeded, is exactly the same calling a neurosurgeon's title meaningless and unneeded. :shrug:

Imagine if anyone could call themselves a neurosurgeon simply for hacking away at it until someone survived... Class represents one's trade skill and/or education.
(It also comes with an assumption of an established level of competency... to "fake it" is to be what's called a 'Quack').
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NeverStopThe
 
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Post » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:42 am

^^ Precisely Aradal. In my classes topic thats exactly what I argue for. And whats more, being able to change it whenever you want to suit whatever changing interests you have.



Thats you're opinion, and regardless, being able to give ourselves a class title can DEFINE YOUR CHARACTER EVEN MORE. (caps to spite)

False. Giving your character a title is a backbone to support itself because you have no backbone imagination wise and can't RP inside your safe little bubble without a class title defining you.
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Shae Munro
 
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Post » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:17 am

False. Giving your character a title is a backbone to support itself because you have no backbone imagination wise and can't RP inside your safe little bubble without a class title defining you.


I really don't see the big deal in a title. Nor can I really comprehend your hatred of it.
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Annika Marziniak
 
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Post » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:58 pm

I have to agree with Aradal. Plus I find it rather interesting that you're borderline insulting me as well. Did classes touch you as a kid or something?

All jokes aside, you've continued to ignore the fact that no one here is relying on a class title in order to roleplay, but in order to help enhance said roleplay.
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Strawberry
 
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